Thanks JR, however there are a few things in my pre-written comments
that need to be corrected.
One, Brek informed me he is not a "junk dealer" my use of that phrase
was most likely "misplaced"
However, (and not that I care or anyone else does) he did not dispute
the content of my post other than the junk dealer comment.
Also, according to my friend, he did show the seller some sort of
price guide. That doesn't not mean that whatever price guide he used
was up to date, or all inclusive.
Don't get me wrong, I don't know Brek personally, though he did buy a
poster since from me on MPB. I was hoping he would call me when he
came down for Ebay Live . I'm sure I'll meet him someday. I'm sure
that one reason he pulled teh poster from ebay is due to what I said
to my friend that Brek had "hurt himself" and while my post was not
done to be mean spirited, I can understand how someone might see it that way.
Myself, I don't care what anybody paid for anything before he sells
it to me, as long as I am happy with the price I paid. If he did but
the poster for $100, that's for him to deal with. I do not believe,
and I say that from experience and from the stand point that I know
myself pretty well, that I would not have tried to pay $100 for that
poster if I was asked about it's value.
Moreover while JR says he would go back & give the guy more if he
made a killing (and I believe JR), if any buyer was honest, he
wouldn't have to go back.
But let me relay a story. Last year a long time & very good friend of
mine called me that he was buying a comic collection & the guy had
art & he had to buy the lot. he wanted me to sell teh art, if he was
able to buy it. When he called me, he didn't really know the value of
the art, and I told my friend "well that one piece is $25,000 or
maybe even more" and he was totally floored. My friend did a deal
with the owner, giving him a price that some would consider very fair
and others not as fair as he may have been (keep in mind, it was a
five-figure price, not dirt). My deal before he bought the stuff was
this: I would sell the art and we would split the profits 50/50 and I
presold one item for ... $25,000 !
My pal sends me the art & an email saying "I paid X. Send me X and
we'll call it even"
well his price was only taking into account the one items and not the
several other items, one of which I sold for $25,000 also. I called
him up after the email and I said "Hey, do you want 50% of the
profits of that one item, or 50% of all the profits?" He said "Just
send me what I told you, and don't tell me what you get"
I made more than 5 times what he made, and he made almost $10,000.
But this guy is my real good pal. So at the San Diego con that year,
I had a few boxes of stuff behind a friend's table (I no longer
exhibit there because the current promoters screwed me back in 2002)
and I had this one box that another friend was buying out of. he
wanted to buy the whole box for a certain price, but I only wanted to
sell stuff from that box for a certain price. he said he would buy
the whole box and I told him ...
"well whatever I don't sell out of that box at X of value, I'm going
to send to my friend .. for FREE" Gary Dolgoff, who wanted to buy the
box was shocked that I would turn down a few grand to give the books
away! But that's what I did.
When my friend got this box of golden age comics witha note saying
"Merry Christmas", he couldn't believe it either. he called me up and
said "Richie, I know it would be fun to think that you sent me these
books for free, but that can't really be true is it?" .. "Yes my
friend, thanks for helping me make money. The thousands of dollars
worth fo golden age in that box are yours to keep"
I don't know that I would call it Karma, I just call it being honest
with my friend who helped me make over $50,000
Rich=========================
At 03:17 PM 6/22/2006, JR wrote:
Sue,
Gee... for the first time I can remember, we are very much at odds
on this issue and the related one about so-called "nasty" comments
made by some MOPO members when a person suddenly pops up and offers
to sell us a poster at too-high a price. Let's take it one point at a time:
1) How the poster came to be "found" (Brek's word, not mine) and
what was paid for it is something only the parties directly involved
can say for sure, but Rich Halegua is known for being a pretty
straight-forward guy and he relayed this story publicly on the list
after the poster went up on eBay:
"My friend was up in Utah
And he had run into a fellow "junk seller"
The junk seller told him a story
About being set up at a flea market in the area
And he sold nothing during the show
But a guy walked up & said "my grand father has posters"
And the guy went home
And the guy came back
And the guy had 7 posters
AND THE JUNK DEALER PAID HIM $700
And I said "Your friend's name is Brek"
and he was shocked I knew all about it
furthermore, in conversation I explained to my friend
that Brek had hurt himself
That Brek should have consigned them to someone who knew what he was doing
That the price he was asking was beyond foolishness
And that if the poster did not sell on eBay....
That it may wind up selling for far less than he may have been offered"
Now, I have no idea what Rich would have to gain by making up such a
odd story -- and he certainly is not known for doing that sort of
thing. So, barring any well-sourced story to the contrary, I don't
see why this one shouldn't be given some credence. After all, as you
say, we all know the story of the FRANKENSTEIN bought for $500 and
many others stories like it. This sort of thing does happen, even
with all the publicity generated about collectibles by The Antiques
Roadshow. So, no, we don't really know, but I seriously doubt that
whomever parted with the poster was shown a price guide quote before
selling it. Really... even I wouldn't do that... which brings me to:
2) How "moral" is it to purchase (or "steal" as some might term it)
a valuable poster for maybe 1% or 2% or 3% of its true value? If the
owner knows its true value and wants to sell it for that, sure,
that's fine. But does anyone believe that really happens? No,
please... if the owner knew the poster was worth maybe $30,000 to
$70,000, he wouldn't part with it for a few hundred or even a
thousand. No one is that dumb or needs the money that quickly. He
would at least make a few calls to poster dealers in the big city
listed in the phone book or the internet and get a few offers. Now,
would I personally buy a CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON for $1,000
from someone who didn't know better? Yeah, I would. But at least
that's about 10% of its value. I would not offer them only $100 or
$200 for it. And, you know what, if I did turn right around and sell
it for $10,000? Yes, I *would* look up the person who sold it to me
and lay another couple thousand on them. I value my karma enough to
do that. But... what if I didn't plan to sell it, but bought it to
keep it in my collection until the day I die? Yeah, I'd offer $1,000
and if he took it I'd skip happily all the way home, buy one of your
frames and hang it on the wall. Why? Because I'm not buying it to
immediately flip it and make money on it as is being done with GRAND
HOTEL. I would be buying it for myself and happy I could get a good
deal as a collector and poster fan. Buying it to re-sell or buying
it for one's own collection may seem like a fine moral point to
some, but it makes a difference to me on my personal ethical scale.
SIDEBAR: The question above really poses an odd dilemma. I believe
most of us, if we were walking down the street and saw a wad of
bills drop out of someone's coat or purse, would pick it up and go
calling after the person to return it to them. We wouldn't even
think about keeping it. But on the other hand, if most of us have a
chance to buy a $30,000 poster for a few hundred or even a few
thousand simply because the owner didn't know what the poster was
worth, we'd do it in a hot second. Myself included. But, morally, is
there any difference between the two situations?
ANOTHER SIDEBAR: I believe it actually is the law that -- if someone
is operating publicly as a dealer and a person comes to them with an
item and says to that dealer "What is this worth?" -- that the
dealer *is* in fact legally obligated to give them a fair appraisal
of its worth. Bruce told me about this law one time, but I'm no
expert. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. So, if there is such a law
and Brek was operating publicly as a dealer when he was approached,
well, who knows? We weren't there.
3) But I have no authority or right to judge what Brek did or did
not do and I wasn't there, so I've been merely making observations
on what I have seen -- let's not ignore the fact that after
soliciting offers on this list, he then put the thing up on eBay in
C5 condition with a starting bid of $99,000 -- that was more than a
bit of, shall we say "over-reaching" oneself? Particularly for
something he had already announced he had "found". It seemed that
having had the incredible luck to have bought it on the cheap from
one sucker, he immediately went looking around for another sucker to
sell it to for high-retail. This is sometimes referred to as
"pushing one's luck". Sure, I tossed out the word... but the term
"steal" is common usage when one is taking about getting a
super-incredible bargain.. as in "Man, I can't believe no one else
bid on that eBay auction... I really stole that poster!".
4) Which brings us to the supposedly nasty comments. I didn't see
any comments on either GRAND HOTEL or the LAWRENCE that were hostile
or nasty -- they were realistic evaluations of what experienced
collectors and long-time professional dealers had to say about the
times presented to them by the sellers. Just because they weren't
necessarily what the person offering those two posters wanted to
hear, that doesn't make them "nasty" -- it makes them honest and
realistic. Sure, the sellers of those posters would have preferred
to have people on MOPO falling all over themselves, gushing praise,
and begging to be the first in line to make a high-retail offer. But
that's not what MOPO is for. As you said, this is a movie poster
discussion group... and we were discussing the posters brought to
our attention in an honest and realistic manner -- I don't see why
you would think that was being "nasty"?
Besides, I was just giving some free publicity to the latest
Heritage auction... isn't that a time-honored tradition on MOPO? ... :)
-- JR
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Susan Heim
To: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>JR ;
<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 16:46
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Grand Hotel re-surfaces as restored
Hello JR and all,
In all fairness to Brek, who has been a framing customer of mine
for quite some time, none of us know what he paid for it. That
story that circulated was just a story from people here last month
was just a story. Brek contacted me right after he bought the
posters from someone who had "approached him" at one of his selling
locations. He had shown them in the price guide what the poster had
sold for previously so they were aware and accepted whatever offer
he made (and there were more than just the one poster in the deal)
allowing him to do the work of shopping it around and putting up
with all the "negatives".
I know poster dealers all over the world that offer pennies on
the dollar and/or truly "steal" posters if that's what you want to
call it. It's the same in any area of antique or collectable.
That's why it is incumbent on the seller to educate himself before
selling. When I buy a poster from someone, I automatically send
them to all the price guides and auction house results. I offer a
fair price but not the top price the poster has sold for. Many
people don't want to deal with auction houses, etc., etc. They want
the sure thing, the money right now, with as little effort as
possible. What about the guy that guy that bought the Frankenstein
in a farmhouse auction for $500 and it resold for $198,000 just a
short time later. Do you think he went back and gave the farmhouse
owners a piece of that action after the auction? Let's face it, if
someone walked up to you and offered you a Creature From the Black
Lagoon one sheet for a $1000, how many of you would insist on
buying it but only if you could pay $10,000, which is not the top
price it has gone for but a fair offer? As John Stossel on 20/20
says, "Give me a break"!!!
One more thing I thought I would mention as it has been
bothering me. I came onto Mopo many years ago to be with people who
collected movie posters like I do. I have thought of it as a
educational venue and a support group as I'm with "friends" that
can relate. I have had several of my customers drop off the group
over the past year because of nasty comments made here. I give Brek
a lot of credit for staying on the group after that whole blast to
him last month when he announced that he was selling the "Grand
Hotel" one sheet. More recently one of our longtime members offered
up a Lawrence of Arabia poster for, what I thought, was not that
absurd of a price based on recent auction results. Several of our
members here were down right "snotty" to him. What's that all
about? Aren't we suppose to support one another? He wasn't do
anything wrong or trying to defraud anyone. I've got to say, I
thought the comments were immature and petty and I was surprised at
their origins. Anyway, enough from me, but I felt it worth mentioning.
Sue Heim
<http://www.hollywoodposterframes.com>www.hollywoodposterframes.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>JR
To: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:15 PM
Subject: [MOPO] Grand Hotel re-surfaces as restored
I see that the one sheet for GRAND HOTEL which was originally
shopped around on this list after it was stolen... excuse me, I mean
after it was "found" and purchased for a few hundred bucks from the
little old man in Nevada who didn't know what he had... has
resurfaced in restored condition as part of the new Heritage floor
auction being held in Dallas July 12 -13. Interesting to note they
decided not to linen-back it, but just went with paper replacement
and touch-up. I also see they have it estimated at $50,000 -
$70,000. A tidy profit for the guy who "found" it...
Oh, well... all's fair in warfare and poster trading, I suppose...
See it in all its restored glory at:
<http://movieposters.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=636&Lot_No=28713>http://movieposters.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=636&Lot_No=28713
See what it looked like when originally "found" before it was
expertly restored to "appears mint" condition at:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:31&item=7619230039>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:31&item=7619230039
... well, at least someone is going to save $30,000 to $50,000 by
waiting until the owner consigned it to Heritage... :)
I don't suppose anyone will tell us who did the restoration? Looks
like a fine job. True artists never get the recognition they deserve
in their life times...
Yours in all curmudgeonhood,
-- JR
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at
<http://www.filmfan.com>www.filmfan.com
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