I don't think the point is whether a third party grading service's grades are
stricter or more lenient than any given dealer.
I look at it as being mainly about two different things:
1. providing a grading standardization so that interested parties have an idea
of what the item looks like no matter the seller.
Example: This Rodan TC was recently offered on eBay from an unknown (to
me seller) with a small photo:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RODAN-Original-Title-Card-/330617408338 It might be in
condition comparable to CGC 9.0 and I would be willing to pay $150 for it, or
say CGC 9.8 and I would be willing to bid $300 for it, but I was unwilling to
take the chance. If it was graded, even with a small photo I could bid with
confidence in what I was getting.
2. providing a restoration check/authenticity check. It is truly hard to
underestimate the value of this service. If it had been available even just a
couple of years ago, potentially over a million dollars worth of Haggard fakes
could have been discovered early and hopefully prevented. And I can't count the
number of times I've spotted restoration on lobby cards or posters that even
the seller was unaware of as it wasn't disclosed when that person purchased it.
Of course it is essential that the grading company stay away from the business
of actually selling posters themselves to avoid the appearance of any conflict
of interest.
----- Original Message -----
From: Geraldine Kudaka
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Grading
No, the third-party graders would not be useful to you if your criteria is
stricter UNLES you opted to spend the money and get your posters graded --
assuming the third party graders would give you higher grades.
There in lies the problem. Whether your posters get the grades you think
they deserve or not.
And you're right.
I was talking about the problem of getting work graded when the grading
companies aren't completely above board, or have vested interest which aren't
fully disclosed. Or are basically people wasting your time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richard Halegua Comic Art <[email protected]>
To: Geraldine Kudaka <[email protected]>; MOPO
<[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 5:14 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Grading
there is a useful place for third party grading, if the grading of all
dealers is in agreement with the grading criteria
from what I have seen, I am not always in agreement with grades I have seen
awarded in comics or posters
so the question becomes: if my grading criteria is stricter than the
third-party grader's, are they useful to me?
but that addresses a separate issue from what Bruce and I are talking about
we actually refer to potential conflict of interest issues when the graders -
as noted by your initial post - are involved the manipulation of the process
and the result is adverse to the consumer, and then I also refer to the market
manipulation that occurs and has in comics, gum cards and coins, when dealers
gerrymander the data etc and/or get favorable grading
Rich
At 02:00 PM 10/11/2011, Geraldine Kudaka wrote:
Wasn't there talk on MOPO a couple of months back about the pros and cons
of grading lobby cards?
I seem to remember there was a discussion after someone had been burned on
a lobby card purchase.
I can see an insecure buyer wanting a third party arbiter reassuring them
about the value of their purchase. If you're spending what seems to you to be a
lot of money, you want reassurances that you're making a smart move.
But Bruce is right about business that spring up grading changing the way
you collect.
From: Richard Halegua Posters + Comic Art <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Grading
Bruce is kinda correct.. but it isn't just the dealers as for the most part
all the collectors are in the money scam. Comics, baseball cards and coins
being the three most commonly third-party graded hobbies are no longer stable
markets.
At 11:47 AM 10/11/2011, Bruce Hershenson wrote:
I have heard this kind of story over and over through the years in all
kinds of collectible hobbies. The graders take over, and between then and the
investors, they run all the old-timers out of the hobby, and you end up with a
dead hobby where everybody left is a dealer looking for some new sucker to sell
to.
And don't begin to question the relationship (and co-mingled ownership)
of the grading places, the top dealers and the top auction houses!
It hasn't happened to posters, but you never know if it eventually will.
Bruce
On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Geraldine Kudaka
<[email protected] > wrote:
The action toy world uses grading from AFA which is an off shoot of CGA
to determine a criteria for grading toys to establishes their value.
This past year, on MOPO, there has been talk of grading posters and
lobby cards.
I'd like to put my 2 cents in about this subject.
I went through grading a lot of Star Wars collectibles at AFA. I called
them for information, and they referred me to someone who works with them, who
is also a toy seller and dealer. This AFA representative offered to personally
handle our items, "cleaning them up" so they could get their best grades, and
"giving us the best price" because my husband was a Star Wars executive. The
best price was paying in advance for grading and paying for a Silver
membership..
He promised whatever we didn't use we could get refunded at any time.
Well, guess what. We've been trying to get our money refunded. First,
AFA couldn't find our account. Then, there was a question about the totals and
we were suppose to be sent invoices. That didn't happened, we got busy and now
that I'm asking again for my hard earned cash, its been like pulling teeth out
of a screaming baby.
All of this is to say I hope the poster world does not go the direction
of grading toys.
First, I find it highly unethical that calling AFA, they would refer me
to someone who is a dealer who offer to help me get the best grade. Makes me
wonder what kind of grades he gets for the items he's selling.
Second, I do not believe AFA has an objective standard. Several of our
Star Wars action figures received a 90 -- which is the highest you can get for
a vintage SW figure -- yet others, which were seemed to be in as good a
condition, received an 80 or 85. These are still good numbers, but I really
wonder about CGA/AFA's objectivity. When I questioned them, they said it kinda
depended on who was grading that day. I have also found out that sometimes
people will send their toys in to be regraded, just to try and get a higher
point.
Last, I'm really irritated at how difficult it has been getting my
money back. If a business offers you a refund, a refund it should be.
figures are
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
___________________________________________________________________
How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
Send a message addressed to: [email protected]
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
--
Bruce Hershenson and the other 25 members of the eMoviePoster.com team
P.O. Box 874
West Plains, MO 65775
Phone: 417-256-9616 (hours: Mon-Fri 9 to 5 except from 12 to 1 when we take
lunch)
our site
our auctions
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
___________________________________________________________________
How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
Send a message addressed to: [email protected]
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
___________________________________________________________________
How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
Send a message addressed to: [email protected]
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
___________________________________________________________________
How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
Send a message addressed to: [email protected]
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
___________________________________________________________________
How to UNSUBSCRIBE from the MoPo Mailing List
Send a message addressed to: [email protected]
In the BODY of your message type: SIGNOFF MOPO-L
The author of this message is solely responsible for its content.
