[Ron] I feel value is a function, that which happens when subject meets object. No subjects and objects, no value. I interpret most of you saying that MOQ's patterns of value are distinct from the subjects and objects it refers to and therefore subjects and objects can be "dropped" leaving only the value. I think frequently SOM becomes synonomous with true/false logic in this forum. Perhaps SOM is better defined as true/false logic, not to be confused with subject/object value perception.
I contend subject/object value perception naturally eludes to dualism intellectually and that many in the past, set to resolve this by focusing on value between the two. An intellectual awareness interpreted as mysticism. Agreeing with Jared in the comment he made that Pirsig (and the Pragmatists) come to this point in a decidedly unique way using scientific rationalism, expelling the mysticism and throwing the light of reason for the first time in an area formally relagated to religeon and superstition. I think William James makes the point rather well: "My thesis is that if we start with the supposition that there is only one primal stuff or material in the world, a stuff of which everything is composed, and if we call that stuff "pure experience," then knowing can easily be explained as a particular sort of relation towards one another into which portions of pure experience may enter. The relation itself is a part of pure experience; one of its "terms" becomes the subject or bearer of the knowledge, the knower, the other becomes the object known. This will need much explanation before it can be understood." -William james I. Does "Consciousness" Exist? (1904) Perhaps the bone of contention is that Pirsig has already relagated this concept as the "MOQ" That which BO wants to relagate as a higher subset of the intellectual level. Bo asserts that MOQ is an intellectual transcendence, Pirsig says nope, still an intellection. And I think I tend to go with Bob on this one. thanks Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
