[SA previously]
> > What does 'independent' mean?
[Platt]
> In this context -- different, distinct, particular,
> singular, unique, special.
Still part of the many/whole?
woods,
SA
> > > > [SA previously]
> > > > > > Arlo, this quote below defines what
> individual
> > > is,
> > > > > > thank you. A fictitious convenience as
> Pirsig
> > > > > notes
> > > > > > below. Sure I say individual, he, she,
> > > etc...,
> > > > > and it
> > > > > > is "...remembered that they're terms for
> > > > > collections
> > > > > > of patterns and not some independent
> primary
> > > > > reality
> > > > > > of their own." Platt, why the hang-up?
> What
> > > are
> > > > > you
> > > > > > trying to hold onto so tightly? Platt,
> this
> > > quote
> > > > > > defines individual, and then moves on to
> use
> > > > > > individual as a convenient fiction. I see
> > > static
> > > > > > patterns as fiction thus truth, thereby,
> > > avoiding
> > > > > the
> > > > > > hang-up of believing static patterns are
> The
> > > > > Truth,
> > > > > > don't forget about dynamic quality.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Platt]
> > > > > I don't consider individuals such as
> yourself
> > > to be
> > > > > "fictitious conveniences."
> > > > > I value you as an "independent reality"
> whose
> > > > > individuality brings much
> > > > > high quality to my experience. I can imagine
> the
> > > > > look on the faces of your
> > > > > staff if you told them they were simply
> figments
> > > of
> > > > > your imagination. No. You
> > > > > and they are as real as life and love and
> beauty
> > > and
> > > > > death. And that's The
> > > > > Truth. :-)
> > > >
> > > > How can I be The Truth? There is you,
> too,
> > > as
> > > > well as mountains and rivers.
> > >
> > > I think you can be The Truth just as much as
> your
> > > assertion that "There is
> > > you, too, as well as mountains and rivers" is
> the
> > > Truth. There are many
> > > "The Truths." And that's "The Truth" :-)
> > >
> > > > As much as you like to say, "And Pirsig
> says
> > > this
> > > > so it must be the MoQ.", your veering from
> what
> > > Pirsig
> > > > says on this issue, which to completely Pirsig
> > > would
> > > > be mistake I'd admit.
> > >
> > > If this was such a big deal for Pirsig he would
> have
> > > devoted a chapter
> > > or two on it in Lila. But you're right. Pirsig
> would
> > > approve veering from
> > > what he says on an issue. He doesn't hold
> himself
> > > out to be a guru who
> > > has all the answers.
> > >
> > > > How can I be an "independent reality"? I
> > > > co-exist with you, too, as well as mountains
> and
> > > > rivers.
> > >
> > > If you "co-exist," there must be something else
> to
> > > exist with -- me, a
> > > mountain, a river, etc. A whole consist of
> parts.
> > > One is only known by
> > > the many. Both exist. Both are real. Like the
> song
> > > says, "You can't have
> > > one without the other."
> > >
> > > > Dq is sq. The mountains are really
> mountains
> > > and
> > > > the rivers are really rivers. I am really I,
> and
> > > > staff are really staff.
> > >
> > > You bet your life. :-).
> > >
> > > >Yet, this stage of
> > > > understanding commented upon by Dogen and
> Pirsig
> > > is a
> > > > pragmatic reality where we are part of web as
> > > Chief
> > > > Joseph of the Nez Perce mentioned.
> > >
> > > I think it's more pragmatic to act on the
> assumption
> > > that I better get out
> > > of the way of that independently real truck
> bearing
> > > down on independently
> > > real me. Don't you agree?
> > >
> > > Platt
>
>
>
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