Hi Joe
On 23 Oct. you commented my words to David M:
> > Forgive me but it all hinges on understanding the MOQ (the
> > SOLinterpretation) None of these persons knew any levels, their
> > ideas were confined to SOM (without knowing any SOM) Some
> > saw faults with it, but this lead nowhere except to "all is mind" or
> > "all is matter". OK, I know you will protest, that some saw deeper
> > realities beyond/below the S/O, but without the Dynamic/Static split of
> > these deeper realitiesl it was still-born.
> > As said, it's a tendency to see all thinking and/or ideas as
> > "intellectual patterns", for instance that the Babylonians plans for
> > building their Hanging Gardens were the workings of intellect, but
> > because this era was before the intellectual level it's clearly wrong.
> > Pirsig finally saw this fallacy (the Paul Turner letter) but his
> > "revision" was so vague and half-hearted that it hardly made it any
> > better. He was a hair's breadth from affirming the SOL, but then backed
> > away with the "Oriental intellect".
> [Joe]
> As I read through your conclusion I require a further clarification
> for myself of the Dynamic/Static split. For evolution a law of three
> is required for a knowledge of the manifestation, namely, the level,
> what the individual is, what the individual is not.
It always takes some time to tune in on your very special
frequency and this evolution of yours - and its laws - that you
constantly refer to, is it some universal thing. I'm unsure because
I've never heard about an General Evolution (in the same sense
as General Relativity) only biological evolution.
You seemingly only name two levels: The INDIVIDUAL and NOT
INDIVIDUAL. Is KNOWLEDGE the third one? All right I ask
because this looks like Peirce's Sign Metaphysics' which in turn
resembles the first trinity version of the MOQ
Pirsig:
QUALITY
|
Subject Object
(mind) (matter)
Peirce:
PRIMARY SIGN
|
Interpreter Object
(subject/mind)
Maurer:
KNOWLEDGE
|
Individual Not individual
(subject/mind) (Object/matter)
Is this something you may acknowledge? (if my diagrams
survive?)
> Since there is no known level of the Dynamic, it is unmanifest. In one
> way then in terms of knowledge the Dynamic/Static split can be
> configured as an Unmanifest/Manifest split.
Yes!
> In this case the order of evolution is unmanifest while the presence of
> an individual within the order is manifest.
"The order of evolution"? Is that identical to the static evolution in
moqspeak? If so why not use the phraseology of the MOQ?
Regarding "the presence of an individual". The first trinity MOQ
had the Individual (subject or mind) as one of (the two) Quality
creations. Later this trinity was replaced by the dualist Romantic
/Classic metaphysics AND FROM NOW THE SUBJECT (MIND
OR INDIVIDUAL) IS GONE FROM THE QUALITY UNIVERSE
...... along with the object (matter). The two have become a
subset of Classic Quality which was subtitled "Intellectual". In
other words Intellect=S/O.
> How does this explanation specifically describe the Intellectual level
> since it also applies to the other levels of evolution?
I may be totally out of tune with your question but let me drone on
The Romantic/Classic dualism was replaced by Dynamic/Static
and Pirsig makes it sound as if this is totally different, but I see a
close relationship. Anyway, had the static intellectual level
retained the S/O content all would have been fine.
> Why single out the intellectual level?
Do you see me singling out the intellectual level? If I harp on the
SOL (intellect=S/O) it's because it is the original idea that Pirsig
of LILA dropped. This latter interpretation of intellect (that no-one
really know what is) have repercussions for the rest of the levels
because (this mysterious 4th. level) makes most people retain
the mind-interpretation and consequently everything becomes
intellectual patterns.
If the S/O interpretation of intellect were establishes we would be
able to delve on the other levels much like we did in the early
days of the Lila Squad.
Bo
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