Hi DMB You need to break out of your familiar & wooden arguments to make progress I think. I get all that DMB but.....
Hey, maybe another day. DM dmb said to DM: I suppose Hegel's Absolute (and similar Gods) would be the quintessential example of a fictional metaphysical addition. DM replied: What I think, is that whenever the absolute or the transcendent is used as concepts by phiolsophers they are often talking about what Pirsig would call DQ, and if you look at it like this, you can get something out of reading idealists, etc. I would also suggest that unlike Pirsig, and like Ham, they often think they can tell us all about the structure/content/powers of the transcendent and absolute. This is a mistake and over reach. We can say what DQ makes manifest, SQ/values/experience/qualities, but after that DQ is without form, it is the intense potential that is left when all SQ is put aside for Tao, ...but what is the test for DQ? I have an answer, what's yours? dmb says: What?! Seems to me that if follow your advice and look at the absolute as if it were DQ I'll only be going on another wild goose chase. Pirsig is talking about experience. As in the hot stove example, the primary empirical reality is no abstraction. At the very end of chapter 29, where he explains the MOQ's similarities to James's ideas, Pirsig says "The MOQ is a continuation of the mainstream of 20th century American philosophy. It is a form of pragmatism, of instrumentalism, which says the test of the true is the good. It adds that this good is not a social code or some intellectualized Hegelian Absolute. It is direct everday experience." Don't you think this is about as far away from "transcendent" as it gets? I do. There's nothing hidden or supernatural about it. This primary empirical reality or DQ is just a reference to experience that we all know already - from experience. I think its a bit like the Eastern Mystical idea that the truth is already right in front of you, like the little fish who swam around everywhere looking for that stuff they call "water". Maybe that why Hegal hated Eastern philosophies. _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
