i don't think you read my last post.
comments interspersed below.

i am trying to help you understand pirsig (amongst
other things); this is what this list is for. you
don't understand him yet.

this is my last try.


> --- Krimel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > [gav]
> > undivided experience is not *my* experience. it is
> > just experience. 'my' is a designation that is
> > applied
> > to what has already been experienced: the past
> (and
> > future) is born. but reality is the cutting edge -
> T
> > =0.
> > 
> > [Krimel]
> > If you set upon a program to develop the ability
> to
> > have such experiences
> > they are happening to you. You can call it what
> you
> > like. But if you do
> > indeed attain "oneness" with everything does that
> > clue you in on what I am
> > doing? 
> > 
> > Again I ask is this an attempt to disengage the
> self
> > or to personalize the
> > Tao?
> 
> gav: there are two selves: lower and higher. the
> higher self (or soul) is consciousness itself,
> awareness. we are all one at this level. ie 'we are
> all the same consciousness experiencing itself
> subjectively (bill hicks)'.  
> 
> the lower self, or ego, is the socialised self. the
> person that talks to you in your head. we perceive
> ourselves as discrete units at this level.
> 
> > 
> > [gav]
> > you are the potential for others to exist. you are
> > fundamentally the awareness that allows anything
> to
> > exist, everything to exist. this is the meaning of
> > tat
> > tvam asi - that thou art.
> > 
> > [Krimel]
> > My awareness may allow others to exist for me
> where
> > they would continue to
> > exist in the absence of me I can't say but I think
> a
> > cosmology that denies
> > this has an awefull lot so explaining to do.
> 
> gav: it is not your awareness. awareness comes
> before
> 'you' (the lower self) are abstracted from it.
> 
> > 
> > [gav]
> > the emotion with the highest vibration, i have
> been
> > told, is gratitude. to be grateful to someone is
> to
> > be
> > most high and happy. in other words by doing
> things
> > selflessly for others you give them not only the
> > gift
> > of your service but yourself the inestimable gift
> of
> > their pure happiness. is this not an analogy for
> the
> > unity and interconnectedness of life? - to give is
> > to
> > receive abundantly. 
> > 
> > [Krimel]
> > I have attempting to a make a point about the
> > relation of emotion to our
> > perception of meaning so I agree emotions are very
> > important. But how does
> > one emotion 'vibrate' at a higher level than
> > another. What frequencies and
> > why is faster better?
> 
> gav: everything is a vibration. this is elementary
> physics. the phrase 'getting high' means elevating
> your vibrations through cannabis smoking. 
> the higher the frequency, the higher the energy.
> more
> energy = more life.
> 
> > [gav]
> > if we focus on the quality of experience and not
> the
> > analysis of experience....this is the discipline
> > that
> > becomes harder to maintain as we grow older and
> more
> > full of concepts. the point of life is total
> > awareness
> > - to be as alive as possible.
> > 
> > [Krimel]
> > Flexibility in thinking is not necessarily a
> > function of age. How concepts
> > are organized and used is at least as important.
> > Having more concepts can
> > mean seeing newer and higher Quality relationships
> > among them.
> 
> gav: i am not talking about flexibility in thinking.
> i
> am talking about not thinking - about being aware
> instead - at one.
> 
> > 
> > While recognizing the nature of ones experience is
> a
> > wonderful thing, so is
> > being able to ascribe meaning to it. If you are
> > really concerning with the
> > nature of experience don't you think looking at
> how
> > your brain and nervous
> > systems are configured to process information
> would
> > be worth looking into?
> > William James certainly did.
> 
> gav: useful analogues, yes.
> 
> > 
> > [gav]
> >  "the point of life is to live and to live is to
> be
> > aware - joyously, drunkenly, divinely, serenely
> > aware"
> > henry miller.
> > 
> > [Krimel]
> > Miller is fun to read. He was not very prolific
> > though I have only read
> > Tropic of Cancer and am savoring the time until I
> > pick up another of his.
> > Kind of like Kafka who really only wrote three
> > books. I have read two of
> > them and intentionally wait to read the last one.
> > His novels are like dreams
> > following loose sets of surreal connections that
> > seem plausible and
> > implausible at the same time.
> 
> gav: miller was actually extremely prolific, writing
> about 30 books. 'capricorn' is amazing as is the
> 'sexus', 'plexus', 'nexus' trilogy. 'collosus of
> maroussi' is alive with jubilant wisdom. 'wisdom of
> the heart' is used as " a spine and a crucifix" by
> my
> friend tess who takes it everywhere with her. 
> 
> i have read kafka's books aswell. i like your
> description of his style. kafka said that all you
> need
> to do is just sit down at your kitchen table (you
> don't even need to leave your house) and be quiet
> and
> the universe will reveal itself in all its majesty.
> just wait, patient, aware.
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> 
> 
> 
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