Dwai, comments below:
[dmb quotes Pirsig]
> > "American don't have to go to the Orient to learn
> what this
> > mysticism stuff is about. In the Orient they dress
> it up with
> > rituals and incense and pagodas and chants and ,
> of course, huge
> > organizational enterprises that bring in the
> equivalent of millions
> > of dollars every year. American Indians haven't
> done this. Their
> > way is not to be organized at all. They don't
> charge anything, they
> > don't make a big fuss, and that's what makes
> people underrate
> > them. Phaedrus remembered saying to Dusenberry
> just after that
> > peyote meeting was over,
> > 'The Hindu understanding is just a low-grade
> imitation of THIS!
> > This is how it must have really been before all
> the clap-trap got
> > started.'"
[Dwai]
> Being a practicing Hindu, I can't help but challenge
> that last
> statement...
> I think Pirsig's experience with the "Hindu
> understanding" is very
> limited in it's scope and perhaps a tad colored by
> an inherent
> chauvinism (there is a very interesting book on this
> phenomenon by
> Prof. SN Balagangadhara of Ghent University titled
> "The Heathen in
> his blindness"?....
> To understand the Hindu experience, one has to
> practice what a
> spiritually inclined Hindu practices -- including
> (but not limited
> to) years of meditation and adherence to Yamas and
> niyamas and
> possibly accompanied by pranayama and asana
> practice. I think Pirsig
> (not withstanding his brilliant mind) wasn't
> anywhere close to this
> direct experiential regimen?
I'm sure if somebody could practice all of what
seem to be different exercises (practices) that join
one spiritual path, it will get you or keep you where
you want to be. Then Buddha came along, and Dogen who
says, 'just sit'. I think what Pirsig was pointing
out was all the rituals, the exercises one, such as
you, have described. That's many rituals/exercises.
Then the Amerindian goes into the tent, sits, and its'
done. It seems simpler. I think it was the
simplicity of the peyote experience that Pirsig was
pointing out. I'm sure to somebody practicing Hindu,
the Hindu practices becomes natural and simple. I see
the vision quest experience of the Amerindian, where
the child is left in the woods and he/she returns with
a gift to give to the people, a vision if you will, is
simple too. Go and sit in the woods and its' done.
With the Hindu practices it's learn these ten or so
exercises and your well on your way. The Amerindian
had to hunt, learn to skin and keep the hides of
animals, learn to find food in diverse places. Be in
touch with the seasons, and prepare with this bone
marrow reality has to offer. If you make a fire in
the winter, your good! These are many rituals too.
Nothing wrong with the Hindu experience, it seems
complicated and numerous in exercises. Yet, for me to
experience life as Amerindian a lot would have to
change and many rituals would have to be learned
better (skinning, keeping the hide, making the bow,
arrows, hunting, etc...) I'm sure either Hindu or
Amerindian is fun. I'm sure it's a touch with reality
that offers much of this world. It's the "dress(ing)
it up" that Pirsig seems to be pointing out in the
quote dmb gave above.
It seems the Hindu tradition says we've got all
these exercises you can learn that will provide a good
spiritual experience, and I'm sure this is true. Yet,
ordinary experience can do just the same.
While walking in the woods one day, I found a
place to camp, and rediscovered the vision quest
experience. It wasn't anything I set out to do. It
wasn't planned. I found a good spot by a creek, and a
thunderstorm blew into the valley. I had no idea this
storm was coming. Fear was rampant. As the fear
disappeared, as a morning fog, a peace in this world
that is always here opened up with me, and this
experience as a human being, shared with others, will
offer a peace that this world is. How I parse this
from reality I don't know? How I bottle this and sell
it or make directions on a piece of paper is
impossible. It is a walk in the woods. To an
Amerindian of the days I speak, a walk in the woods is
ordinary everyday experience. I walked many days and
camped many nights before that night, and it was as
ordinary as any experience I've had in the woods.
Do I "dress it up" occasionally? Yes, when I try
to make that perfect cup of coffee, clean up the
house, find that perfect song to play on the CD player
that fits the moment, when I try to place the best
words to describe what I'm trying to say into this
computer to be emailed to the forum, when I season my
meal with extra pepper that particular day, or super
clean the vehicle before I leave for vacation and make
sure all the lovely feel goods are within easy access
such as high % cacao chocolate, grape juice in the cup
holder, and the gas tank is full - and then at that
moment I wait and am ready to receive the on-coming
experience with those little extra somethings to spice
it up. Off we go!
Or I could go outside in this winter, gather some
wood, make a fire in the front yard, sit, watch the
clouds blow by in the night sky and stare off into the
stars as I lay on this earth.
whatever floats your boat,
SA
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