Hi Chris.
I only fetch my mail once a day and may get out of sync, I know
you have a post later on, but I'll concentrate on this first.
30 Jan. you wrote:
> Do you mean that thoughts about gods and the like that originated as
> early as perhaps 5-6000 B.C. is not a manifestation of intellectual
> patterns?
I guess you know about the endless discussions of the 4th. level
because of Pirsig's obscurity here. His first private comment (to
Anthony McWatt) was for it to be defined as "mind", but in a
metaphysics which is supposed to replace the mind/matter
metaphysics this sounds strange. In LILA he spends much time
showing that the inorganic level has nothing to do with SOM's
matter so why should the intellectual level correspond to "mind"
... and intellectual patterns be "thoughts"?
In ZAMM's first sketch of a MOQ there are no levels, only the
Romantic/Classic divide (a variety of Dynamic/Static) The former
is also called "pre-intellectual" and the latter "intellectual". The
latter is then split into subjective/objective (mind/matter in
parenthesis). This shows that Phaedrus regarded intellect as the
S/O divide, and to this day I can't fathom why he didn't follow up
in LILA.
Well, he kind of did, for instance this:
Perhaps in Homer's time, when evolution had not yet
transcended the social level into the intellectual, the two
were the same. (my digital LILA p. 34)
In Homer's time (1000 BC?) the Q-evolution had not reached the
intellectual level, then neither Stone- nor Bronze Age had arrived
there (not all present day civilizations for that matter) There are
more examples of the Quality premises leading to the
intellect=S/O conclusion, but enough for now.
Repeating your question:
> Do you mean that thoughts about gods and the like that originated as
> early as perhaps 5-6000 B.C. is not a manifestation of intellectual
> patterns?
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. I have pointed to the
"intelligence fallacy", that of equating thinking with the intellectual
level. It's plain that higher animals - birds even - do a lot of
thinking without having a notion of this taking place in any mind
realm. It's also known that ancient people had no S/O division.
They did not - um - think; "Now I'm just thinking about ..." , the
inner dialogue we call thinking was perhaps once regarded as
gods' voices. (Julian Jaynes)
I have discussed the MOQ so long that I have problems limiting
myself. Will soon reply to your last
Bo
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