Matt, and all ... Surprised to find me in your second list in terms of which form I "like", but as you indicate later, the one I "do" is the other. So no matter.
Your conclusions (1) Agreed. Caveat definitions / metaphors etc. (Care is a good word BTW.) (2) I find this "distinction" between the metaphysics and its description useful rather than troubling. I would be troubled, if I thought someone was looking to find a metaphysics "independent" of its description. Let me explain. I would have used the word model (or framework) for what a metaphysics is. I would say the best model is the one that is both most comprehensive and most useful, in describing, explaining and predicting the state and behaviour of the real world (most "cash" value). I'm a pragmatist in practice. I would say that model needs to "support" (describe / explain / predict) an ontology (of what exists) and epistemology (of what may be known) and an ethics (of what is of value, what to care about). I would say that such a model must be assumed to be contingent, however good and comprehensive it is "there is always a hole in my metaphysics" - never entirely "fundamental" in any absolute sense, just fundamental enough for its maximum pragmatic use. The VERY REASON I like the MoQ (find it the best model) is that it models its own evolution. It is its own description. It is its own grandpa. This kind of cyclical relationship (almost) guarantees it's longevity - evolutionary change beats static certainty every time - since however good it is to start with it can (almost) only get better - if never absolutely perfect. Am I making any sense ? Ian On 2/28/08, Matt Kundert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > As someone who holds down at least two part-time jobs (Rortyan and > Pirsigian), though probably more (Fishian, Bloomian, etc.), I'm required by > law to give two answers (though, sadly, there's no law that requires people > to read the answers the same way I do). > > 1) Metaphysics is the general framework, or understanding, or set of > assumptions, that people unconsciously (with various degrees of > self-consciousness) interpret, or see, or live in the world. As an activity, > it is the attempt to make the unconscious self-conscious (this activity is > also known in some circles as "philosophy"). > > 2) Metaphysics is the branch of philosophy that attempts to display the > basic, universal, ahistorical underpinnings of reality (this activity is also > sometimes known in some circles as "Platonism," and in a few circles the > acronymic "SOM"). > > And, as I am wont to do, I have slotted everyone who has given an answer (or > commented, before giving their own--against Magnus' rules, on someone else's) > willy-nilly into two categories-- > > People who like the first definition: Arlo, Steve, SA, Dewey, Pirsig > > People who like the second definition: Me (Matt), Magnus, Marsha, Ian, Plato, > Rorty > > According to the definitions, people who _do_ the first: Me (Matt), Marsha, > Craig, Ian, Arlo, Steve, SA, Dewey, Pirsig, Rorty > > According to the definitions, people who _do_ the second: Magnus, Plato > > These capricious designations are, of course, subject to change, but they do > highlight two things-- > > 1) I don't really care what kind of definition people use for "metaphysics," > so long as they read other people with care enough to consider we all may be > using slightly idiosyncratic usages. > > 2) I find Magnus' distinction between an "understanding/model of the > metaphysics" and "the metaphysics itself" to be troubling for an > self-declared Pirsigian (as, I glean, others also feel). > > Matt > _________________________________________________________________ > Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star > power. > http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
