Hello everyone > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 20:57:13 -0500 > Subject: Re: [MD] What is 'Plains-spoken' to you? > > > Hi Dan, > > That was a wonderful, sensitive, thoughtful reflection on the MD, philosophy, > and voice. I constantly struggle with my voice and presentation and I'm > thankful for your treatment. I still remember the conversation we had some > time ago about direct and indirect experience. It was then that I realized > more clearly than ever before about how much that philosophical distinction > rests on its common sense counterpart, and that conversation contributed > greatly to the crystallization of some of the ideas I've just been wielding > (I believe we were talking about baseball at the time). > > I had one comment about something you said: > > "Be that as it may, I do understand how someone pushing meditation on another > could be construed as a type of manipulation and so generate a certain > animosity. I sense that undertone in your post, Matt, though you seem to be > intellectually rationalizing your distaste into a type of philosophical > position (that I do not altogether agree with) and in doing so end up > utilizing the very academic tactics that Mr Pirsig upbraids in his work." > > I found this an interesting comment. The way I've seen my own work is as > moving back and forth between philosophical positions and regular, workaday > stuff, like common sense and pet peeves. I've tried to heighten sensitivity > to the distinction between the two, whereas in some I sense either > unselfconscious innocence to such a difference or a self-conscious binding of > the two. I think it's important to see the difference, see how we move back > and forth, how they interplay, and I think Pirsig was pretty good at it, > though sometimes he seems to suggest a tighter connection between the two > than I'd prefer.
Hi Matt I think what I was driving at might be more properly understood (from my perception of the problem) as a disconnect rather than a back and forth movement as you're (seemingly) inferring. It is that disconnect that drives much of the internal discourse going on with the narrator in ZMM and the back-and-forth friction within the dialogue between Lila and the Captain. Either a person is as you say unselfconsciously innocent (unaware) of the disconnect (Lila) or else they are aware and yet have nothing to offer as a remedy other than to risk throwing more fuel on the academic fire by intellectualizing everything to death (the Captain). It seems to me that there ought to be (although ought-to-be's are more often than not just pipe-dreams in disguise) a simple way to marry these two conficting arenas. As you yourself say, this is an important difference to note and one that often slips under the carpet, so to speak. But I also believe that we are (most times) unaware of the complexities that underpin so-called simple solutions to anything. > > I'm perfectly comfortable with calling a spade a spade, in this case an > instinctive bridling by what I see as presumption. But because I think Pirsig > has taught us that philosophy flows out of this kind of workaday stuff, and > that philosophy can flow back into it, I sometimes call a spade a heart > because I sometimes get the sense that the other person sees a heart, too. I > can ignore spades, but we are here to talk about hearts, so I often try to > make philosophical hay out of what isn't always normally considered > philosophical materials. I think Pirsig wanted us to be sensitive to that. Dan: I think so too. And I am sorry if I sounded presumptuous. That wasn't my intention. > > Oh, and Dan: you should hold me responsible for my style, though perhaps not > others. I try to be a self-conscious stylist, and I happen to like some of > the stuff others can't stand, even some of the more prosaic academic writing. > Which is fair enough: we all make choices. Perhaps you're right. I certainly don't mean to offend anyone and if I did, again, I apologize. Thanks for writing. Dan "Sometimes one creates a dynamic impression by saying something, and sometimes one creates as significant an impression by remaining silent." Dalai Lama _________________________________________________________________ Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_getintouch_042008 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
