Hi Chris -- > I think I get what Bo means by this: To a SOMist > everything is subject and object. To a MOQist everything > is Quality. If you ask both of them: "but hey, where did > Objects/Quality come from?" both of them will answer > that 'it was always there', perhaps adding: 'waiting to be > recognized by us humans.' > > That, and a religious understanding of things isn't part of > a system, it is what makes a system possible. > > But I will ask Bo this then, how does the MOQ and the > SOM differ? > > In fact, I will ask all of you that.
Again, this is a question that confuses the two philosophical ontologies that Pirsig addresses. The MoQ claims to transcend subject/object experience by regarding Quality as the undifferentiated source or potential. SOM deals with reality as we experience it -- as objective phenomena (quality patterns) made aware to cognizant subjects. The difference is that MoQ leaves the source (DQ) undefined, whereas SOM categorizes and defines objects and events as levels or patterns of Quality. Both concepts are based on a Quality ontology, but no metaphysical theory has been provided to relate them. A "religious understanding of things" is no different than a philosophical or mystical understanding of things. But in order to have metaphysical understanding, you need to account for experiential cause-and-effect reality as a derivation of the primary undivided source. And the MoQ does not give us the means to do this. Instead, it argues (unsuccessfully, IMO) for the idea that Quality exists independently of conscious awareness. This is illogical because quality (i.e., value) is an esthetic judgment that can be realized only by a sensible subject. Therefore the primary source must be something other than quality, such as God, Sensibility, or Essence. Pirsig did not resolve this enigma because it would mean allying himself with theism or supernaturalism which are inimical to postmodern thought. That's why DQ remains a vague concept to Pirsigians and an unresolved issue in contemporary philosophy. Regards, Ham Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
