----- Original Message -----
From: "Krimel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] Pattern
>[Krimel]
Other symbolic systems from the written word to music to art, carry
Varying degrees of ambiguity but more emotional depth. That depth
offers clarity at the expense of precision. But this is why I argue
that not all thought is linguistic or symbolic.
Marsha
Opposite-from-non-zebra is, of course, zebra. It seems to me, it's
my pattern for the general meaning of zebra. It's not mostly
linguistic. It's not anything like two paragraphs describing a
zebra. It's not mostly image. It's not some internal picture of a
zebra. It's something different. It seems much more sensual. It's
like some conglomerate of all my exposure to zebras. It's like some
pattern! Now I do not have much direct experience of
zebras. Mostly books and a visiting a zoo. So it's pretty
vague. If I think about my guitar, it is much stronger in every
sense, and I haven't played my guitar for many years.
[Krimel]
Take "guitar" then since, we both have more experience with guitars than
zebras. I don't know anything about your experience of "guitar" but I
suspect it does not involve a Telecaster Custom/Delux that Jimi Hendrix
gave
you in a dream and your girlfriend promised to buy for you if you would
marry her. When you hear the word "guitar" you probably have no
association
with the consummation of a dream come true. To me that word caries with it
images and sounds and the pain of blistered fingers, the smell of
varnished
ash and maple, frustration and ecstasy. I can find more words to convey
these associations but none can provide you with my experience. You have
your own and communication works to the extent that there is at least some
overlap in our mutual experience. In that overlap we find objectivity.
Greetings Krimel,
Yes, I have had personal experience with the guitar too. They are a part of
that opposite-from-non-guitar pattern that overlays present experience.
What is interesting is that it doesn't seem to be words, or even images.
Your pattern would be unique to you, mine to me, and there would be overlap
between our patterns. Objectivity? That's a strange definition, a mistaken
definition, illusion, plain wrong.
[Marsha]
What's come to my mind is the word 'chunking'. I believe it is a
term used for assimilating chunks of information in the learning
experience. Maybe from the book 'Flow'. Maybe this chunking is
establishing a pattern?
What do you think?
[Krimel]
I see the connection but my associations with the word "chunking" are more
along the lines that it would hard to learn this string of numbers:
17761812186019451968 but easy to learn this one: 1776 1812 1860 1945 1968.
It would be hard to learn: IBMCIAFBIIRSIMHO; easy to learn IBM CIA FBI IRS
IMHO.
Well, I'm not sure that's the correct word. But I remember reading when
we're trying to master a new skill, that we learn in chunks. We work, work,
work, and it seems like we're getting nowhere. Then one day we get it, it's
ours, it's automatic, no more need to think it. Maybe it's become a static
pattern. Then it's on to the skill's next plateau.
But I think what you are getting at is that lots of experience clusters
around any concept that we have. An idea is a node in a web of
associations.
When we think of a concept it touches that web and the web resonates. Some
of the elements in the web are verbal and linguistic but some are not. But
I
would agree that they form conceptual patterns.
Damn! I just find this concept 'opposite-from-non-zebra (or whatever)'
really, really interesting. I seems like pattern to me. Especially
considering how little direct experience one realizes. What else would the
pattern 'zebra' be? It's mostly warmed over yesterday's experience. It's
not the chattering internal dialog, but it does seem to stimulate that
dialog. Yes these patterns are definitely not words and or an image,
because that would be a particular zebra.
Well, thanks for responding. Back I go to computer stuff. (I love it!!!)
Marsha
p.s. Here, I'll leave you with a poem I found during my internet travels:
The waves of mind
demand so much of Silence.
But She does not talk back
does not give answers or arguments.
She is the hidden author of every thought
every feeling
every moment.
Silence
She speaks only one word.
And that word is this very existence.
No name you give Her
touches Her
captures Her.
No understanding
can embrace Her.
Mind throws itself at Silence
demanding to be let in.
But no mind can enter into
Her radiant darkness
Her pure and smiling
nothingness.
The mind hurls itself
into sacred questions.
But Silence remains
unmoved by the tantrums.
She asks only for nothing.
Nothing
But you won't give in to Her
because it is the last coin
in your pocket.
And you would rather
give her your demands than
your sacred and empty hands. (Adyashanti, 2003)
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