Hello Krimel and David, If shifts in consciousness and mystical experiences?are examples of?'powerful and meaningful experiences that don't come through the sense organs', then individuals without the usual sense organs should still experience them. Perhaps more so?
Many people intuitively feel that the usual sense organs provide a better life experience, and would not wish to be denied them, or choose to have them removed in order to enhance consciousness and mystical experiences. However, various teachings attempt to do just this (via meditation and/or substances), so logically, would it not be better to advocate the removal of the usual sense organs at birth in order to facilitate shifts in consciousness and mystical experiences? One can imagine a sci-fi story in which a class of machines exists and maintains itself simply to harvest organic brains which are kept in a presumed mystical state. squonk -----Original Message----- From: david buchanan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:36 Subject: Re: [MD] Chance Krimel asked dmb: What sort of experiences do you think transcend sensory experience? What exactly comes wandering through this door you think you are opening? dmb replies: Value. Quality. A shift in consciousness, a mystical experience. There are all sorts of powerful and meaningful experiences that don't come through the sense organs. I think Pirsig is drawing attention to something we all do all the time, even if we usually fail to notice it. It is a sense of quality, a sense that's always working and accompanies just about every sight and sound we ever saw or heard, an immediate impression or feeling for the quality of the situation. This can be positive, negative or something in between. I mean, this sense of value does not mean we simply find goodness everywhere. It is more like a claim that all experience has an aesthetic quality and that this perception is just as real as any other perception. We might tempted to call this a sixth sense, but I think its more like the first sense, the most basic, immediate and primary mode of experience. _________________________________________________________________ Earn cashback on your purchases with Live Search - the search that pays you back! http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=earncashback Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
