Platt,
Yet, Ham would say the moq does not say that.
SA
--- On Tue, 6/17/08, Platt Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: Platt Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [MD] Chance
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Tuesday, June 17, 2008, 5:02 AM
> On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Krimel
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> To Whom it May Concern:
> > Typical Ham below. Not a word about the nature of his
> intuition and how it
> > differs from revelation or faith. No mention of why
> anyone would should buy
> > his primary source as a first principle. Just more
> loose talk about
> > scientific blinders and whining about things he
> doesn't understand.
> > Krimel
> >
> >
> Speaking of scientific blinders, here's one that goes
> to the heart of the
> MOQ:
>
> "The Metaphysics of Quality follows the empirical
> tradition here in saying
> that the senses are the starting point of reality, but --
> all importantly --
> it includes a sense of value. Values are phenomena. To
> ignore them is to
> misread the world." (SODV)
>
> Reality in the MOQ is a "vague sense of
> betterness" prior to conception
> and definition, i.e., intuition. Without it, science would
> never have begun
> nor advanced beyond the ancient Greeks.
>
> Platt
>
>
> _______________________________________
> >
> > Hi Platt (DMB and Krimel mentioned) --
> >
> >
> > > Krimel said to Ham:
> > > The Big Bang can easily be conceived as an
> uncaused first cause that is
> > > neither absolute nor undifferentiated. It is the
> instant of the birth of
> > > spacetime. While the Big Bang is a
> "theory." It is supported by lots of
> > > evidence. It does accord with the universe as it
> is currently understood.
> > > It
> > > does make verifiable predications about future
> states. It serves all of
> > > the
> > > functions of your "Essence" without the
> quasi-religious overtones.
> >
> > [Platt]:
> > > A wonderful description of the "Oops
> Theory" of being.
> > > An uncaused first cause is something supernatural
> for sure.
> > > But don't tell that to the priests of
> science.
> >
> > [dmb]:
> > > Yea, the "first cause" is more or less
> the God of the philosophers,
> > > the God of the Deists. The Big Bang theory,
> however, is entirely
> > > natural. That's exactly why religious people
> dislike it so much.
> > > The only unknown, the only area about which there
> is no
> > > overwhelming consensus, is what happened in the
> first fraction of
> > > a second, a tiny fraction. ...
> >
> > Other than that, how did you like the play, Mrs.
> Lincoln? Inasmuch as
> > everything in existence has to start somwhere, this
> "fraction of a second"
> > that is "the only unknown" becomes critical
> to all other theories about the
> > universe. Certainly it has been the cardinal issue in
> metaphysics
> > throughout history.
> >
> > But, as you can clearly see, DMB and Krimel are not
> about to be seduced by
> > the "supernaturalism" of metaphysics. For
> them, the "real world" of
> > experience is inviolable, and all knowledge must be
> empirical -- based on
> > what Science says. I find it ironic that such closed
> minds remain on this
> > forum to interpret Pirsig's thesis for us. If
> they refuse to accept
> > anything but a textbook explanation of reality, how
> can they possibly pass
> > judgment on a metaphysics of Quality? Indeed, how can
> they appreciate
> > Value even as they experience it?
> >
> > There's a significant difference between
> imaginative fantasy and intuitive
> > reasoning, and wisdom is not enhanced by limiting
> one's intellectual
> > perspective. If the legacy of the great philosophers
> is nothing but
> > meaningless "prattle", I should have thought
> that Pythagoras, Socrates,
> > Aristotle, Plotinus, Saint Augustine, Leibniz, Hume,
> Berkeley, Kant,
> > Hegel,
> >
> > Schopenhauer, Spinoza, Peirce, Wittgenstein,
> Heidegger, and Pirsig would be
> > passé by now. Seems they're still being read,
> however. (Must have
> > something to do with the power of witchcraft.)
> >
> > Thanks for injecting a bit of "uncommon"
> sense, Platt. God knows we can
> > use it!
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Ham
> >
> >
> >
> >
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