DMB, I appreciate that my pointing out the ambiguities is a source of frustration - an I have no problem with the tag "muddy waters" if you wish, but I am not "creating" the ambiguities ... so please don't "accuse" me.
So to the meat ... (1) I took no objection to your suggestion that the guilty - the bad apples - should be punished made examples of - public ritual ... that is a large part of what the legal process is for. On the contrary, I'm all for it. (2) Let's talk about the relationship between this one man and the these millions of other people (of both parties / any / no party) some not yet born, in whom you and I both have these hopes (BTW we can come back to this teleological mythology sometime.). My issue is with the practicalities - beyond hopeful optimism ... Given the status-quo, how do arguments like the one in Obama's quote get recognized in actual practical thought and action going forward ... if he's elected do you thing people suddenly will stop mocking "inconvenient truths" as if by magic or rapid evolution. ... I'm, trying to build on what you said - asking the next question. I have absolutely no disagreement with what you said. Regards Ian On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 10:19 AM, david buchanan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Ian said: > ...My fear is that if we wrongly identify the problem (and the solution as > hope in one individual to save the world ... not without its own risks) any > progress is fragile and temporary. > > dmb says: > As usual, you've created ambiguity where none is needed. Its pretty obvious > who "they" are. Their names are in the papers, in book titles and on > subpoenas. You should change your name to muddy waters. (We'll say your > drivel is the water and your confusions are the dirt. Together, they add up > to muddy waters.) How could you possibly construe what I said as "hope in one > individual to save the world", for example? I'd said, "there needs to be a > large public ritual, a concrete demonstration of disapproval for the sake of > posterity" and "if this party retains control of the government, I think > democracy will die here" and "I want to believe that most Americans are just > as horrified as I am, that everybody sees how awful the GOP has become". > Obviously, I'm talking about my hope in tens of millions of individuals, some > of whom haven't been born yet. And I emphasized the parties, in fact, because > the all agencies of government have been stacked with "these people". That > means repla ci > ng many thousands of individuals, if not millions, to actually operate the > government in a democratic fashion. > > My fear is that you'll keeping posting nonsense and other pointless > distractions. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get more from your digital life. Find out how. > http://www.windowslive.com/default.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Home2_082008 > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
