Thanks for the "interesting quotes", Marsha. If I follow you here, these are Western scientific versions of the idea of mutual arising, of dependent arising, It is a scientific denial that anything exists independently. This is anti-essentialist physics, no? This is physics outside of the metaphysics of substance, no?
> Thomas Stapp: > > "The physical world is "Not a structure built out of independently > existing non-analysable entities, but rather a web of relationships > between elements whose meanings arise wholly from their relationship > to the whole" " An elementary particle is not an independently > existing non-analysable entity. It is in essence, a set of > relationships that reach outwards to other things." > "In conclusion there is definitely not a substantial physical world." > > > > John Wheeler: > > "May the universe in some strange sense be "brought into being" by > the participation of those who participate?... The vital act is the > act of participation. "Participator" is the incontrovertible new > concept given by quantum mechanics. It strikes down the term "ob > server" of classical theory, the man who stands safely behind the > thick glass wall and watches what goes on without taking part. It > can't be done, quantum mechanics says." > > > > Werner Heisenberg: > > "What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our > method of questioning". > "...we never can know what actually goes on in the invisible > subatomic realm, and that, therefore, we should "abandon all attempts > to construct perceptual models of atomic processes". > > > > Niels Bohr: > > ".. an independent reality in the ordinary physical sense can be > ascribed neither to the phenomena nor to the agencies of observation." > "Isolated material particles are abstractions, their properties > definable and observable only through their interaction with other systems." > "Quantum mechanics entails the necessity of a final renunciation of > classical ideas of causality and a radical revision of our attitude > towards the problem of physical reality." > > > > David Bohm: > > "Parts are seen to be in immediate connection in which their > dynamical relationships depend in an irreducible way on the state of > the whole system and the entire universe. Thus one is lead to a new > notion of unbroken wholeness which denies the classical idea of an > analyzability of the world into separate and independently existent parts." > > > > Robert Oppenheimer: > > "If we ask, for instance, whether the position of the electron > remains the same, we must say 'No'; if we ask whether the electron's > position changes with time, we must say 'No'; if we ask whether it is > in motion, we must say 'No'. The Buddha has given such answers when > interrogated as to the conditions of a man's self after death; but > they are not familiar answers for the tradition of 17th and 18th > century science." > > > > Fritjof Capra (The turning point) sums up the current situation: > > "In atomic physics the observed phenomena can be under stood only as > as correlations between various processes of obser vation and > measurement, and the end of this chain of processes lies always in > the consciousness of the human observer. the crucial feature of > quantum theory is that the observer is not only necessary to observe > the properties of an atomic phenomenon, but is necessary even to > bring about these properties. .. The electron does not have objective > properties independent of my mind. In atomic physics the sharp > Cartesian division between mind and matter, between the observer and > the observed, can no longer be maintained. We can never speak about > nature without, at the same time, speaking about ourselves." > > > > > . > . > > Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars......... > . > . > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ _________________________________________________________________ Get thousands of games on your PC, your mobile phone, and the web with Windows®. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/108588800/direct/01/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
