Krimel said: Even Ham knows that experience is a personal thing. On this particular point the MoQ is entirely in the realm of subjective. When each of us has an experience that experience is primary and we as individuals infer subjects and objects from it.
dmb says: Um, I think what DM is trying to say (below) is that you've undercut the whole point even as you make it. Pirsig says that subjects and objects are derived from experience and you say, yea, the subjects are derived from the experience OF THE SUBJECT. That doesn't just undercut the point. You've reserved it so that it becomes an endorsement of SOM rather than a rejection of it and an alternative to it. And many, many misconceptions would naturally follow from this crucial mistake. I'm beginning to think that you don't really know what you're talking about here, Krimel. [Krimel] To the extent that we can discuss subjects and objects as non-metaphysically significant critters, then yes the MoQ is entirely an account of phenomenological experience. Derivation does not happen in a vacuum. Once distinctions are made they do not reside in the ether. We, that is, regular folks are neither subjects nor objects. We are sometimes one, sometimes the other and sometimes both. As I have said many times now and as Arlo has mentioned it is the ability to adopt multiple perspectives that sets our species apart. I think this also would be helpful with regards to your confusion about pluralism and essentialism. The pluralism that I would support and I think is consistent with the MoQ and with James is that there are many ways to understand the world around us. This is epistemological pluralism. You have turned this into a metaphysical pluralism that I think has been rejected by nearly everyone who has seriously addressed the issue from Lao Tsu, Buddha and Jesus to Einstein, Darwin and James. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
