dmb, A wise man once said, "A moralist is someone who wants to let his conscience be your guide."
Krimel -----Original Message----- From: david buchanan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 12:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [MD] Virtually meaningful? DMB said: ...And I can't help but wonder if fantasy role-playing games in cyberspace actually serve that ongoing developmental process or if they actually divert it into meaningless channels. Arlo replied: I don't think spending time in Second Life or World of Warcraft is any more, or any less, meaningful than playing on a baseball team, captaining a debate club, or repairing a motorcycle. Why can't the Buddha rest comfortably in the virtual worlds of cyberspace? ...What would you say if I told you I spent 15 hours a week working on my motorcycle? Brewing beer? Playing in a bluegrass band? Making and bottling hot sauces? Why are these any more "valid" or "meaningful" than online "play" in something like Warcraft? Are the ones that force me to see the corporeal hosts of others more meaningful? Why? dmb says: Are you saying the question is unfair? Are you saying that the Buddha resides comfortably everywhere such that we can make no judgments about what does and does not constitute a waste of time? What if a guy spent 15 hours a week watching game shows and another 15 watching sports and the other guy spent the same amount of time helping people or reading good books. I hope you're not saying that it makes no difference what we do. There is nothing wrong with having a little fun of course, but I think its safe to say that some things are better than others. Arlo said: ...But let me pose a question. I often spend a lot of time riding by myself. I love spending a day just me and the Harley toodling around the unpopulated lands of north-central PA. I've spent entire weekends just riding, camping, thinking and laying on my back look at the sky. Should I have been "with actual people" instead of by myself? Would that have made my time "more meaningful"? dmb says: I don't understand people who don't do that sort of thing. If I don't get any time to just sit by myself and think I start to get very cranky. I'm not saying that we need to be constantly gregarious or that the physical presence of others determines what is and is not valuable. It's just that I don't understand how these virtual worlds can mean anything at all. Pretending and role playing is necessary for children and can help psychiatric patients but I don't understand what meaning a normal adult finds in it. Can you say anything specific about what it means to you or your friends? Arlo said: What you are talking about is "balance", I'd gather, and that we need to find a harmonious balance between our solitary and our social times. dmb says: Balance? No, that's not what I'm getting at. But if guys like Pirsig and Heidegger are right about the pain and damage caused by alienation and that psychic isolation then I can't help but wonder if virtual worlds aren't just a way to mask that. The intimate details about the lives of pop stars and actors are dished up as celebrity gossip in magazines and in cyberspace, for example, sorta kinda makes people feel connected to people that they don't really know. It only provides the illusion of intimacy and community. It's part of that "fuck you cause you're not on TV" attitude. So I'm wondering about the psychological motives and effects of living in these virtual worlds. Or take porn, for example. This is an illusion of intimacy that, in some cases, does damage to real sex lives. That's what I mean by meaningless diversions. I can't help but wonder if people are eating fruit-flavored candy instead of actual fruit, eating starburst fruit chews where a real cherry would be so much better for you. I'd argue that this forum has real nutritional value. Hopefully, we aren't just pretending to discuss the MOQ here. That mere fact that it takes place in cyberspace instead of a physical building and we type rather than speak does not divert anyone from a good philosophical conversation. In fact, the medium works quite well for such a purpose. But virtual LIVES? Fantasy worlds where we become warriors that have magical powers? Wouldn't a psychologist say that's kinda regressive or even infantile? I don't know, just don't get it. I'm skeptical, so I'm asking you. It's easy to see how that would be fun, but in what sense is it meaningful or valuable or anything like that? _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together-at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
