[Ron] hey man, thats HER character, just accept it, why do you feel her response is any more wrong?
[Arlo] Of course it is. I'm not sure I'd say making snide little remarks is "wrong", but if that what she wants to do, then I have no further need to respond to her. My post was simply to get back to the questions, she can make smug remarks all she wants, who is stopping her? But if I walk onto a court expecting to play basketball, and suddenly find myself playing dodgeball, then why should I keep playing? As you both say, "just be honest". If you have nothing to contribute but snide derisions, then just say so. Say, "Arlo, I can't really respond articulately to your points, so I'm just gonna make snide comments to what you write", then I can decide if I want to play that game or not. [Ron] .. are you going to tell us what is right and wrong now after you and Krimel bashed DmB for it? two can play this game cha-cha. [Arlo] When did I say it was "wrong"? Its just not a game this Arlo finds value in playing. [Ron] I think you are cleverly changing the questions to something that has little relevance to the issue [Arlo] This issue is about "pretend" and "real" identities. The questions just problematize the notion. [Ron] one is who they are, understood. making up who you are is another story. [Arlo] So you are saying "Ron" is not "made up"? Okay, what are the criteria you use to determine when a "self" is real and a self is "made up"? Is "Julia" made up or is "Mark" made up? You seem to accept that "Julia" is real. Okay. Does this mean the "Mark" all "her" friends know is "made up"? By whom? How is Mark any more or any less "made up" than Julia? [Ron] I am not Ming from Mongo, I am not the emperor of a fictitious world. [Arlo] How do we determine "what we are?" Let's consider your reply here has three aspects, name, geographic placement, and title. Would you agree that if Mark wanted to go by "Ming" instead of "Julia" then that would be "her name"? The second, you refer to must mean the geographic placement of one's corporeal host. "My body is in Mongo", or "the body Arlo inhabits is sitting in Pennsylvania", or even, "the body Ron inhabits was born in X". Fair enough, there are claims one can make about the geographic positioning of one's corporeal host that one could judge as "correct" or "incorrect". The third, title. I'd submit that "titles" are "real" when they are socially agreed upon. What makes someone an emperor is that there is social structure that supports this. When the social support is gone, the title is meaningless. If everyone stopped acting as if Bush was president, I mean everyone, would he still be? No, of course not. This is what I mean by the "self" being a socially-derived, negotiated "reality". You don't accept that "Arlo" is an emperor, so for you the reality is that "Arlo" is not, and I lack the power to use coercion to force that view on you. But even if I enslaved you, tossed you into a dungeon, had you pilloried for a week, if you really never accepted me as emperor, then for you I would not be, would I? Titles are negotiated social roles. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
