You know what would be a fascinating, informative exercise... to re-write these last few posts in terms assigning/ abstracting the MOQ values of levels and Dynamic vs Static, much as one does in predicate calculus for formal logic.
Any takers? As I re-read them these posts sound awfully SOMish. thanks--mel Andre: Mel, you must have read my mind!...though not necessarily about predicate calculus for formal logic...don't know much about them. I must start by saying that I am not versed in economics, philosophy, metaphysics or any of the specialities that I think are required to, not only contribute in a sensible way to this discuss but also to make sense of this discuss in the first place. All this throwing around of concepts produced by one intellectual system or other which have their origin in and special meanings attached to where...this is all very intellectual but this MoQ, which is what this discuss is supposedly about is most definately losing its base i.e. its Social Level.Also meaning: to be understood not by just a handfull of very smart university educated professors. I really am just a normal human being, a static pattern of values, every second of the day receptive to dynamic quality and finding it here and there...don't worry. I find it by not intellectualising...I find it by trying as much as possible to open myself up (beginner's mind?) to things nature, same old nature, everyday again, presents to me. I find it with my students who, in their combination of wisdom and absolute naivete allow me to learn and experience (because I open myself up) quality events that will become my own static patterns of value. In this discuss I am also learning about the American attitude, their ideas about freedom, liberty, democracy and I realise I do not know anything at all. I learn about their ideas about "social" ...and I think non-existent!! You are a conglomerate of individuals still trying to come to terms with the idea of living together on on block of land. And experiencing this as having to put up with the other fellow human being. All these previous posts on the why and wherefores of fucking personal and federal income taxes considering them as "low social patterns of value" is, as a European human being working in China, absolutely astounding!. When I am "home" again, and working there, I pay more than 30% towards taxes..to be used socially. I may not always agree on the percentage of distribution or wisdom of their allocation but I am always conscious of the fact that I am a part of a society of human beings, with all our handicaps, short comings, illnesses, diseases whatever. I saw this thing with Sen.Sanders (some reacions were..yeah, a quality person) and I thought nothing of what he said was really so special, but I was mostly surprised by the show host's reaction ( assuming his voice was the voice of most Americans..How can you say this? I thought socialism ( fellow human beings of paramount concern) went out with the fall of communism? I mean...how fucking naive can you get? and short sighted...and egocentric, and selfish!). Like the Japanese said of ZMM...what's so special?? Your zealous defence of "individualism/ egocentricity and selfishness combined into apology of self reliance" is based on the collective blood, sweat and tears of millions of your predecessors. Poor fucking immigrants who died to live up to this impossible hallucination of the American Dream! on top of those who did not believe in that dream in the first place and just wanted to develop a life of quality for themselves. Your taxes are intended for the social good, and it is not my fault that these taxes go towards the fabrication of more and more weapons of destruction( that are used in over three quarters of the globe killing, maiming, suffocating ,unsettling, bribing and forcing other peoples into believing that your ideas of SOM non-quality is the highest quality to be achieved so be fucking thankfull for having us here) especially when you vote for fucking leaders that persuade you to do so... and that that is the social good and indeed your god-given responsibility! You need a rethinking of your values and that is why Pirsig wrote ZMM and Lila. I read through some of your posts an adherence to the scenario I am painting here. Discussion came up about profits/ monies etc i.e. social rewards. The question was something like; what can we replace it with. I suggested a moneyless society and I saw your reactions...keep on dreaming Andre. You are looking for an alternative reward to all the hard work you put in everyday, to make things comfortable for yourselves and your children and hopefully your childrens children. How about this really soft, fluffy,woolley, intangible thing called quality which you find when you start caring (another one of wooley, hippy- like things) about what you do everyday day of your life, caring about those around you.Caring so much that you begin to wonder why you do not have a national health system, caring enough to wonder why your education system is in the state it is in,caring enough so you begin to wonder why the welfare system is in a mess. These are social networks put in place through the caring intellectual attitude because it has recognised that not everyone has the same opportunities, not everyone is born with equal capacities etc etc. Caring enough that you indeed begin to wonder why some one person should have 22 billion dollars in the bank and some of your countrymen have nothing to show for except an honest family for an honest days pay for an honest day's work and nothing more and should anything happen to mum or dad that this automatically reduces them to destitution. The value experience you get cannot be converted into money. This is an insult to the quality work you have put in!! Wake up to yourselves...it is indeed all SO fucking M thinking. When can we get back to MoQ stuff? I really enjoyed Marsha and woods' conversation and am very sorry to see it stopped due to differing personal experiences (and interpretations in Moq terminology) of the same thing. If we keep this up we are destroying the MoQ and in the process render our personal experiences once again meaningless and thereby handing victory to good old SOM. Tear me to bits! Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
