Dear Andre, Pirsig had some advice for all who would try to use the MOQ as a basis for telling others how to improve:
"There are so many kinds of problem people like Rigel around, he thought, but the ones who go posing as moralists are the worst. Cost-free morals. Full of great ways for others to improve without any expense to themselves. There's an ego thing in there, too. They use the morals to make someone else look inferior and that way look better themselves. It doesn't matter what the moral code is- religious morals, political morals, racist morals, capitalist morals, feminist morals, hippie morals-they're all the same. The moral codes change but the meanness and the egotism stay the same." (Lila, 7) In Chapter 29, he explained why: "To put philosophy in the service of any social organization or any dogma is immoral. It's a lower form of evolution trying to devour a higher one." Platt > Mel, you must have read my mind!...though not necessarily about > predicate > calculus for formal logic...don't know much about them. > > > I must start by saying that I am not versed in economics, philosophy, > metaphysics or any of the specialities that I think are required to, not > only contribute in a sensible way to this discuss but also to make sense > of > this discuss in the first place. > All this throwing around of concepts produced by one intellectual system > or > other which have their origin in and special meanings attached to > where...this is all very intellectual but this MoQ, which is what this > discuss is supposedly about is most definately losing its base i.e. its > Social Level.Also meaning: to be understood not by just a handfull of > very > smart university educated professors. > > I really am just a normal human being, a static pattern of values, every > second of the day receptive to dynamic quality and finding it here and > there...don't worry. I find it by not intellectualising...I find it by > trying as much as possible to open myself up (beginner's mind?) to > things > nature, same old nature, everyday again, presents to me. I find it with > my > students who, in their combination of wisdom and absolute naivete allow > me > to learn and experience (because I open myself up) quality events that > will > become my own static patterns of value. > > In this discuss I am also learning about the American attitude, their > ideas about freedom, liberty, democracy and I realise I do not know > anything > at all. I learn about their ideas about "social" ...and I think > non-existent!! You are a conglomerate of individuals still trying to come > to > terms with the idea of living together on on block of land. And > experiencing > this as having to put up with the other fellow human being. > > All these previous posts on the why and wherefores of fucking personal > and > federal income taxes considering them as "low social patterns of value" > is, > as a European human being working in China, absolutely astounding!. > When I am "home" again, and working there, I pay more than 30% towards > taxes..to be used socially. I may not always agree on the percentage of > distribution or wisdom of their allocation but I am always conscious of > the > fact that I am a part of a society of human beings, with all our > handicaps, > short comings, illnesses, diseases whatever. > I saw this thing with Sen.Sanders (some reacions were..yeah, a quality > person) and I thought nothing of what he said was really so special, but > I was mostly surprised by the show host's reaction ( assuming his voice > was > the voice of most Americans..How can you say this? I thought socialism ( > fellow human beings of paramount concern) went out with the fall of > communism? I mean...how fucking naive can you get? and short > sighted...and > egocentric, and selfish!). Like the Japanese said of ZMM...what's so > special?? > Your zealous defence of "individualism/ egocentricity and selfishness > combined into apology of self reliance" is based on the collective > blood, > sweat and tears of millions of your predecessors. Poor fucking > immigrants > who died to live up to this impossible hallucination of the American > Dream! > on top of those who did not believe in that dream in the first place and > just wanted to develop a life of quality for themselves. > Your taxes are intended for the social good, and it is not my fault that > these taxes go towards the fabrication of more and more weapons of > destruction( that are used in over three quarters of the globe killing, > maiming, suffocating ,unsettling, bribing and forcing other peoples into > believing that your ideas of SOM non-quality is the highest quality to > be > achieved so be fucking thankfull for having us here) especially when you > vote for fucking leaders that persuade you to do so... and that that is > the > social good and indeed your god-given responsibility! You need a > rethinking > of your values and that is why Pirsig wrote ZMM and Lila. > > I read through some of your posts an adherence to the scenario I am > painting > here. > > Discussion came up about profits/ monies etc i.e. social rewards. The > question was something like; what can we replace it with. I suggested a > moneyless society and I saw your reactions...keep on dreaming Andre. > You are looking for an alternative reward to all the hard work you put > in > everyday, to make things comfortable for yourselves and your children > and > hopefully your childrens children. > > How about this really soft, fluffy,woolley, intangible thing called > quality > which you find when you start caring (another one of wooley, hippy- like > things) about what you do everyday day of your life, caring about those > around you.Caring so much that you begin to wonder why you do not have a > national health system, caring enough to wonder why your education system > is > in the state it is in,caring enough so you begin to wonder why the > welfare > system is in a mess. These are social networks put in place through the > caring intellectual attitude because it has recognised that not everyone > has > the same opportunities, not everyone is born with equal capacities etc > etc. > Caring enough that you indeed begin to wonder why some one person should > have 22 billion dollars in the bank and some of your countrymen have > nothing > to show for except an honest family for an honest days pay for an honest > day's work and nothing more and should anything happen to mum or dad > that > this automatically reduces them to destitution. > The value experience you get cannot be converted into money. This is an > insult to the quality work you have put in!! > Wake up to yourselves...it is indeed all SO fucking M thinking. > > When can we get back to MoQ stuff? I really enjoyed Marsha and woods' > conversation and am very sorry to see it stopped due to differing > personal > experiences (and interpretations in Moq terminology) of the same thing. > If > we keep this up we are destroying the MoQ and in the process render our > personal experiences once again meaningless and thereby handing victory > to > good old SOM. > > Tear me to bits! > Andre > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
