woods said: Curious. Do you really think Obama is going to change this fascist slide? His interests are easy to see, too. He voted for the bailout. He's for gun control. This is way over Obama's head, and he's going to have a difficult time changing anything in Washington even if Obama still has a glimmering morsel of morality left in him.
dmb says: I don't see any reason to think Obama has been drained of morality. And the idea that he's in over his head is even more bizarre. He's brilliant, in fact. He was the nation's top law student, editor of Harvard's law review, worked for years as a constitutional law professor and I'd be shocked if his I.Q. was less than 130. And if you're saying that voting for the bailout or gun control is a fascist thing to do, I'd have to conclude that you don't really understand what fascism is. Think about what Pirsig says about fascism, that it is the glorification of social values and social authority, especially at the expense of intellectual values. Then think about the complaints from Arlo and me. The McCain supporters are saying that "liberals hate real americans", that the liberals in congress ought to be investigated for their anti-American activities, that these are the same types who put Pirsig on their shit list, that their opponents are branded as anti-American traitors, that guys like Hannity and Limbaugh have achieved new levels of fear, anger and venom and that the Republican "base" is really showing its true colors by calling Obama a terrorist, an arab, a secret Islamist and calling for his death. All this fear of other religions, flag waving, war making, tough guy foreign policy and xenophobic fear mongering is essentially the worship of social values and social authority. This goes hand in hand with the worship of the so-called free market, over t he top religiosity and excessive patriotism. This is what fascism looks like from the inside. It's a kind of narcissism that wants to destroy everything that doesn't look and feel and act just like me and mine; my country, my religion, my values, my race, my language and my way of life. Difference of just about any kind is seen as some kind of evil, some kind of rot. And it's no accident that the bill of rights, the separation of powers and democracy in general has taken a huge hit over the last eight years. And you know what fuels all the hate heaped on ACORN? They help black people register. So, so much of what the Republicans say is cryptic racism. English only, immigration issues, the war in Iraq, family values talk, defense of marriage talk and lots of other things would more or less fall flat if it weren't for the various forms of prejudice. Did you notice what McCain said when he took the microphone away from one of his supports who'd just said Obama was an Arab. He said, no ma'am, he a decent family man. As if being Arabic means you couldn't possibly be a decent person! And he's a Christian, but so what if he wasn't? This is not rational stuff, woody. I'm not saying that Democrats or liberals are purely intellectual. Personally, in fact, I'm registered as non-affiliated and since 1980 I've voted democratic only about half the time. But I certainly will this time and I won't even have to hold my nose, as I always have before. I have never ever voted for a Republican and probably never will. In my opinion, anyone who votes Republican this year is either immoral or insane and probably both. Obama couldn't clean this mess up even if he held office for 20 years. Nobody could simply because the damage is too extensive. But if we move in the Bush/Cheney direction any further, we're sunk. It might be too late already. And so the democrats represent the only reasonable way to put the breaks on this trend. There is no other legal way to stop it. I realize that way too many people throw the word "fascism" around for stupid reasons. But I was a history major and did my undergrad thesis on Germany's fascism. It wasn't a very good paper but I've been thinking and reading about it ever since and I'm telling you that this is what it looks like. People who were there and lived through it will tell you the same thing. Naomi Wolf is far more educated than me. So check this out this talk she gave at the University of Washington about a year ago... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc _________________________________________________________________ You live life beyond your PC. So now Windows goes beyond your PC. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/115298556/direct/01/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
