Ron, Arlo, hooray ... (and Bo) This is what I was about, parodying the "god vs ooops" choice, and why I'm trying to bring the SOM discrepancy debate with Bo round to the subject of emergence from complexity, through self-referential, level-crossing, so called "strange" loops of logic.
In fact, "I am a strange-loop", someone said. Ian On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 7:19 PM, X Acto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Agree! great post, and thank you for the correction, the term self > referential is what I was after. > I think an enlightened appoach to the concept of a "God" is viewing us as a > complexity-emergent self-referentiality. > > thanks Arlo > -Ron > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Arlo Bensinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 12:58:17 PM > Subject: Re: [MD] The SOM/MOQ discrepancy. > > [Ron] > Due to the fact that biological life is present in the universe, one could > argue that reality is indeed a self reflecting system.. What that means or > what that entails I'm not sure I know. But it does seem to be an existing > feature. > > [Arlo] > Hey, I am all about self-referential systems (I prefer the term to > "self-reflecting", as the latter seems passive). Self-referentiality seems to > be a cornerstone of evolutionary progress (Hofstadter writes a great deal on > this). Its the nature of that "self-referentiality" that's at issue. And I'd > say there is a world of difference between a complexity-emergent > self-referentiality and a needy Deity who needs "its magnificence" worshipped > and so creates "man" to fill allay its vanity. > > I'd also argue that in the MOQ, it is not only at the appearance of > "biological life" that the cosmos gains self-referentiality, but it certainly > does advance it a great deal from the inorganic level. Indeed, I'd say that > biological level is the result of (admittedly simple and humdrum) > self-referentiality on the inorganic level. Thus there is (IMHO) not a > difference in kind, but a difference in degree, with the fundamental > processes by which ALL MOQ levels emerge from the previous level. > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
