Useful piece of "educational" background Khoo. Very interesting. (The power of the paper - "SOMist Intellectual" - qualification was also behind that recent mid-east story about the Iranian minister with the fake Western degrees.)
No substitute for common sense, a personally evolved, enlightened "street" wisdom. "Never trust a man who doesn't work with his hands, He looks at you once, you know he understands." (Peter Gabriel) Regards Ian On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 5:55 AM, Khoo Hock Aun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Andre & Ian, > > Correction, my earlier post should read: > I used to think and I still subscribe to the idea that no institution on > earth gives you an education. > A good education is something you give yourself. > To continue: > > From Wikipedia: "Beginning in the Han > Dynasty<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Dynasty>(206 BCE to 220 CE), > prior to the imperial examination system, most > appointments in the imperial bureaucracy were based on recommendations from > prominent aristocrats <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristocrat> and local > officials, and it was commonly accepted that recommended individuals must be > of aristocratic rank. Beginning in the Three Kingdom > period<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_kingdoms>(with the nine-rank > system <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-rank_system> in the Kingdom > of Wei<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Wei>), > imperial officials were responsible for assessing the quality of the talents > recommended by the local elites. This system continued until Emperor Yang of > Sui <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Yang_of_Sui> established a new > category of recommended candidates for the mandarinate (进士科) in 605 > CE<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/605>. > For the first time, an examination system was explicitly instituted for a > category of local talents. This is generally accepted as the beginning of > the imperial examination system > (科举).[1]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_examination#cite_note-0> > > Theoretically, any male adult in China <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China>, > regardless of his wealth or social status, could become a high-ranking > government official by passing the imperial examination, although under some > dynasties members of the merchant class were excluded. In reality, since the > process of studying for the examination tended to be time-consuming and > costly (if tutors were hired), most of the candidates came from the > numerically small but relatively wealthy land-owning gentry. However, there > are vast numbers of examples in Chinese > history<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_history>in which > individuals moved from a low social status to political prominence > through success in imperial examination. Under some dynasties the imperial > examinations were abolished and official posts were simply sold, which > increased corruption <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_corruption> and > reduced morale." > > Khoo: > What a wonderful idea; the notion of an examination where candidates may > prepare for to advance according to their capacity and capability. But while > the Chinese Imperial examination system may have been the model for the > western churches of reason when it came their turn to provide a system of > calibration for their graduates into society at large; the examination > is now reduced to be the vast instrument of compliance for the Western based > SOM intellectual community to impose its worldview on hapless populations. > > Without it and the paper qualifications they yield, you dont get a job, feed > your familiy or have even a chance of advancement. Without it in Communist > China, you do not get appointed to the plum positions in the bureaucracy and > their various arms. If ever there is an avenue for an idea to be imposed > upon the world in the most brutal effective sense its the examination > system. > > Unless of course you are ready to make your way into the world in the much > less regarded world of crafts and commerce, which require less of the > intellect and more of the social skills and streetwisdom. Bill Gates by > this measure far overcompensated for his initial shortcoming. > > Before examinations held such sway, you learned your craft through > apprenticeships and became good enough when your master said so or when you > were simply good enough. > > It is this internal compass for Quality that is missing from the equation > and I thought both ZAMM and Lila highlighted that absence in the education > system today. Our bearings for Quality come outside the education system and > we have to reach into our direct experience with the world and the universe > in general to acheive a proper balance. > > Where the intellect and its systems fails us, we make up for it with > commonsense. > > Rgds > Khoo Hock Aun > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Andre Broersen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> Ian: >> >> It is ironic that it is called a "qualification" no ? When it is >> really a "quantification". When objectives (values) become objects, >> they are so much easier for accountants to count, and harder for the >> rest of us to value. Education without quality. >> >> Andre: >> >> Hi Ian, yes, I agree with everything you say.Where education should be the >> domain of exploration, a sort of experimental laboratory and also a type >> Phaedrus describes in ZMM, it is one giant factory where students learn >> what >> they need to know which is determined by the marketplace. Ready made >> subjects as part of a ready made curriculum spouting ready made knowledge >> to >> get ready made jobs. >> And I believe it will only get worse as schools, colleges and universities, >> certainly over the last 20 years have sought closer working relationships >> with big and small business (both in terms of financial sponsoring and >> provision of required knowledge [by business]). >> Students are pre-packaged to suit a pre-determined job to keep on feeding >> the Giant. >> Yes, this whole notion of 'paper qualification', these ever increasing >> meritocracies where 'ability' is defined and reflected in the number of >> pieces of paper a person has.(and not real ability in many cases). >> The 'familiarity' Phaedrus talked about, this 'experience once attained' >> can >> lead to creative/playful use of that which you know and of that which one >> is >> expected to do, but is seen as low value. >> In Holland, when one has reached the age of 45 and up, and having lost >> one's >> job (after having been in one for 20 odd years) one has buckly's chance on >> getting another one. One is simply considered too old. (that's one of the >> reasons why I sit here in China as a voluntary development worker!). >> Anyway, I can go on and on about this. Yes, Ian it is worrying and >> depressing. >> >> But Cheers! Andre >> Moq_Discuss mailing list >> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org >> Archives: >> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ >> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ >> > > > > -- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 6016-301 4079 > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
