Mel, everyone
[mel:]
When regulation acts to reduce restrain-of-trade that has
its source in the biological pattern of greed, then it is indeed
intellectual value 'correcting' a biological pattern using the
social level to do so. Regulations that set standards, such
as weights and measures are generally sensible.
Agreed.
[mel]
But regulation for the ideological reason should be looked
at very carefully. Despite the root-word 'idea', the movement
that spawns an ideology is usually social, and the sweeping
'feel-good' sloganeering of the social rarely has fine powers
of discrimination in the world. "Truth" is bottled for its own
protection and, thus becomes unusable. I think that sounds
like Static Quality.
[chris]
I disagree. Indeed an ideology may be a purely social level phenomena,
however, the intellectual level must use the social level in order to get
biological bodies to work to further Intellectual Good.
Secondly, Truth is always within a paradigm, and I join with Anthony McWatt
in disliking the words "Static Quality" - rather there are stable patterns
of value, and then there are DQ (perhaps there is a hazy middle as well when
DQ is being realized, but that's deep metaphysics).
[mel]
When you look at the market, not as an ideology, but as a
simple matter of the aggregate behavior of all people with
the click of their plastic, the rustle of their currency, and the
jingle of their coins, then you get a sense of the background
soundtrack of the marketplace. It has physical, biological,
social, and intellectual components. It ain't simple.
[Chris]
I never said it was simple, and I know that everything is always overlapping
and interrelated when it comes to patterns of value, however, it is my
belief that the free market system, at it's core, is a system where social
values have absolute supremacy, the other values we know of are only valued
when they doesn't stand in contrast to social value (in this case, profit).
I don't see it as an ideology either, though some people practically worship
it, I see it as a giant, a giant that can be tamed to work for us, if we use
good chains - although we must allways look out so that the chains doesn't
come of.
[mel]
The intellectual level isn't 'vitimized' by the market, it's
part of the aggregate of the market in some partial
'ven diagram' way.
[chris]
I disagree. Since I view the intellectual level as being The Quest for
Knowledge, I identify it as being very immoral for this Quest to be
restricted by what's profitable.
[mel]
Judging from the behavior of American industry, and all the
investment in air quality equipment, when the environment
is comprehended as a cost-measurable-good, then it
enters the marketplace. OSHA regualtions show similar
calculus of 'human cost' as do public health regulations.
Bitching about the environment might raise awareness, but
it also raises resistance when it is done in a low-quality way
[Chris]
Indeed, development of environmentally friendly products only come about
when the intellectual level impose restrictions, or manage to create a
social level movement that makes it un-profitable not to be environmentally
friendly (I.e then people won't buy your stuff). The same thing goes for the
value of human life vs. market.
mel:
Just to repeat, regulations that remove restraint-of-trade
by low quality behavior and avoid creating regulation
based restraint-of-trade (potentially even more damaging)
are potentially in the service of DQ.
[chris]
It is my belief that no static/stable pattern of value can be "in service"
of DQ. And I also believe that going down that road, as to justify things by
referring to a mystical entity called DQ that likes some things and
dislikes other things will rightly place us in the "New Age" box.
mel:
An 'intellectually guided economy', however, is another thing.
Nothing is more democratic than the choice of where to spend
money, time, and attention. It is the ULTIMATE democracy to
the point of anarchism.
The value of human life is rather clearly shown when an
issue of People magazine or a tabloid journal is sold and
a coin is deposited in a Darfur Relief box by the same store's
cash register. We value the starving children, just not as
much as Brittany (sp), or Brad-Angelina/Jennifer/the Royals/
Beckham/All Blacks/Bollywood...at the end of the day when the
relief box and register sales are tallied.
[chris]
Yeah. I just don't believe in any of this. For one thing, "the choice of
where to spend
money, time, and attention" is not your to make freely. It depends on when
and where you where born, who your parents are, how you speak, what your
sexual preferences are etc. It's hard to see a time when those difficulties
won't be around, but we should try to bring about true freedom: a society
where everybody has an equal chance.
For what its worth
Chris
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