MDiscussion!
On Jan. 7
Mel to Andre:
> Although, the first sentence is interesting. Is this a biological Jesus
> acting on a social Christ, maybe an intellectual one acting against his
> social role?
Andre:
> I think, Mel, if he were to return today he would definately exclaim:
> 'I am not a Christian!'
Christendom's place in MOQ's level system has been an interest
of mine since I learned about Pirsig's ideas and that - in his opinion
- religion is the primary social value pattern. This I agree with
regarding Judaism, Islam and the Old Testament Christendom,
but the "modern" New Testament type Christendom is something
else. Besides it seems far from having reached any final form, in
this country (Norway) there are clergymen who (gives the
impression of) not believing in God. One particularly pastor said so
explicitly and was removed from his office (Christendom is a the
"state religion" in this country) The old- and new testaments co-
exist in a strange symbiosis, there's even two theological faculties
at a university, one liberal and one orthodox. The former accepts
gay marriages and even gay clergies while the latter don't and
speak about "God having forbidden it", yet things seems to move
the liberal way.
It was Mel's above:".. maybe an intellectual Jesus acting against
his social role?" that caught my interest. My opinion is that Jesus
picked up the intellectual (SOM) signals from the Greek culture -
directly or via the Roman occupants - and that his revolt against
Mosaic Law (the law for humans, not humans for the law) was
intellectual value's first intrusion on this social value-steeped
region. Intellect had no impact on Judaism then (it's still
impervious) nor on the later Islam, and for 1,5 thousand years
Christendom also continued in the traditional vein with a bit more
complicated divine family. After the Renaissance however Jesus'
human message came to the fore again. The later development
was many-faceted, but generally it ended up in the said liberal
form. In MOQ-speak Christendom became more and more
intellect-influenced, but intellect (SOM) spawned the MOQ, what
will a MOQ-influenced Christendom be like, will it become a
Buddhist/Taoist-like wisdom? Or does the MOQ aspire to a future
wisdom that even encompasses the Eastern tradition?
Andrè's about Jesus "returning" ....etc. He did of course not know
about his future role as "Christ" or anything else of things to come,
but in general I believe that he was in conflict with the said
"Semitic" tradition and only MOQ's level model explains what
happened then and what followed ....and will happen.
IMO
Bodvar
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