And DMB, as I said in some earlier exchanges in these recent threads, that is precisely the point I am left "missing" ... what exactly the "radical" brings to the pragmatist that the (other) neo-pragmatists miss.
I don't seem to see a distinction your way (yet) ... but I'm trying to follow your arguments to get there, reading beyond Dewey, James & Rorty too. I can see that true (well defined) knowing is in valuing the "direct experience" - the "pre-conceptual awareness" ... but I don't see how that fixes the problem of "holding necessarily undefined" linguistically, in any kind of discourse, philosophical or otherwise. (In fact I go so far as to say that I don't see that poor linguistic definition as a problem that needs fixing anyway. Which I know winds you up, as if I'm being perversely unclear. For me the necessary definition is in the "process" of experiencing ... and reflecting and acting.) Thanks, any more pointers to what I'm missing, much appreciated. Ian On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 1:40 AM, david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ian said:This is exactly what Pirsig is saying when he says that value / > quality "must remain undefined" ? Pragmatically, these values cannot be > pre-judged, prior to the hindsight of the evolutionary process. Our framework > / world-view must not be (MoQ is not) prejudicial to that process. > > dmb says: > Huh? > I think Dewey had to be vague when talking in generalities simply because > specifics can only be used when talking about particular situations and > particular purposes. DQ, on the hand, must remain undefined because > definitions are static and intellectual while DQ is pre-intellectual. If > there is a parallel to this in Dewey, it would be something like the initial > phase in any given situation. In James it would be parallel to what he called > "pure experience". In all three cases we're talking about a pre-conceptual > awareness. You "know" it in the sense that it is experienced but it's not yet > interpreted in terms of words and concepts. This is what prevents radical > empiricists from adopting the notion that all experience is a linguistic > affair and so marks one of the important distinctions between them and the > neo-pragmatists. > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. > http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t1_allup_howitworks_012009 > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
