Hi Ham, [Ham] > I can't speak for UTOE, nor can UTOE speak for himself. However, his > association of the cupboard with catfood may be a rudimentary step in > intellection. After all, a logical proposition (syllogism) is nothing > more > than associating two or more premises to form a logical conclusion. My > point to Bo was that a concept is an idea realized by the subject. Words > or > equations are needed to convey the idea to others, but they're only > symbolic > representations of the subject's realization.
Until the subject (a pattern of values) symbolizes (with an intellectual pattern of values) his realization (Dynamic Quality), the subject remains mute. Thus, I can only speculate on what the subject "realizes." I assume UTOE the cat has a "dim apprehension" of a value pattern (food), but that's about as far as I would care to go. > And, speaking of concepts, doesn't it concern you that words pertaining to > intellection -- such as awareness, cognition, consciousness, > conceptualization, and realization -- are virtually absent in Pirsig's > writings? Do you suppose this is because he doesn't believe in subjects, > or > because he doesn't want US to? He believes in what you call subjects, but he calls them patterns of value consisting of inorganic, biological, social and intellectual patterns of value. Remember: for Pirsig, the world is a moral order. Like he suggests, when you see subjects and objects as interacting patterns of value, you get a whole different view of reality than seen through subject/object spectacles. > > Bo has defined intellect properly as the value of the subject/object > > division, a value you rigorously support. But from an MOQ perspective, > > what is more fundamental than the S/O division is the value. > > True. Which is why I'm still talking to Bo, despite our "intellectual" > differences. I would guess your value differences are wider than your intellectual differences. [Platt] > > Anyway, intellect has brought us such marvels as the Reid/Pelosi > stimulus > > (stealfromus) bill, proving Ben Franklin's observation: "So convenient > it > > is to be a rational creature, since it enables us to find or make a > reason > > for everything one has a mind to do." [Ham] > We are in complete agreement there. We don't need "conspiracy theories" > when the strategy is so factually evident. After promising "transparency" > and "non-partisan politics" our new President has rammed through Congress > the largest spending bill in U.S. history, concealing details from the > public and refusing to consider alternative measures. Less than a third > of > the $720 billion will provide tax credits to private businesses, the > legitimate source of jobs and investment, while the rest is a New Deal > spending package designed to benefit illegal immigrants and the > unemployable > that will do nothing to stimulate the economy. > > As Rahm Emmanuel said last November, "Never let a crisis go to waste." > One > would have hoped that the Anointed One, who has been heralded as "the most > intelligent president ever to assume office", would have the sense to > realize that you can't cure a deficit crisis by spending money you don't > have. Among future steps, already underway, will be pushing for the > "Fairness Doctrine" and making U.S. Census redistricting subject to White > House approval, instead of the Commerce Dept., thereby ensuring a Democrat > victory in the next election. You and I know what "change" our new leader > has in mind for the Obamanation. What troubles me is that no one seems to > care. Not only does no one seem to care about the flim-flams being perpetrated by Obama and his acolytes, but no one seems to care about an even more frightening development -- the criminalization of free speech in Belgium, supported by English who appear to have reverted to Chamberlain-style appeasement. No need to go into all the details. Suffice it to point out that Geert Wilders, a Dutch member of parliament, will be brought to trial for making remarks about Islam that a court said would "effect the dignity of Muslims." Wilders was later invited to England where he was detained and then deported back to Holland on the grounds that he would "threaten community harmony." The Wilders case shows that what began in academe, that supposed citadel of intellectual freedom with its politically correct speech codes, has now predictably and inevitably deteriorated to totalitarian censorship. The way the present generation has been indoctrinated, you and I know that what used to occasion outrage at such an assault on basic freedom will never happen. Best regards, Platt Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
