Michael, To simplify it, to me, faith/reason is a question/distinction of how one chooses to support their beliefs/faith/reason. To support it via abstract or particular expereince. Science endeavors to not allow assumptions color expereince it seeks objective explainations of observable phenomena, it relies on the faith of it's axioms to predict and cause phenomena, it builds it's beliefs on the accuracy of the predictions of observable phenomena. Science has the ability to shape phenomena based on those predictions. It calls this ability proof. Religion has the ability to shape the observation of phenomena it calls this ability proof. Modern physics realizes this and makes allowances, most physicists are deeply religious, often science and religion merge in the wonder of phenomena. Belief is justified by usefulness, what one finds usefull is contextual.
-Ron ________________________________ From: X Acto <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 8:20:33 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Faith/Skepticism Michael, I mean to say that faith and reason are the same. Faith is belief, I ask, on what does one base faith on? -Ron ________________________________ From: Michael Poloukhine <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2009 11:51:28 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Faith/Skepticism > Ron: > I mean, please explain and support your prior statement: > "Religion doesn't justify itself with reason, Reason does that to > religion as reflex." I was responding to your statement that: "Religion rests soley on reason in terms of justification." If anything, you need to explain *that* statement. Religion rests on *faith* in terms of justification, not on reason. Faith conditionally precedes reason. End of story. At least, it would be the end, but for Reason's own presumption of legitimate supremacy in all things cognitive and its self serving demand for justification of all things under that presumptive umbrella as well as, in its boundless arrogance, those outside it. Hence "Reason's reflex." Reason doesn't know how to approach anything but through reason. Religion is in the realm of faith and in that sense outside the bounds of reason when it comes to a justification on reason's terms. Reason was born in contradiction and opposition to faith and religion, and in short; one can *never* as such justify Faith on Reason's terms BY DESIGN. Its like proving a woman is not a witch by drowning her and calling it just because *you've* decided witches float. MP ---- "Don't believe everything you think." Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
