[Bo] Right it says PREINTELLECTUAL nothing about pre-conceptual and in the "preintellect/Intellect" dualism that this forms the right hand section is not "conceptual" but S/O (the subject aware of an objective world)
[Krimel] FYI, that crunching sound you heard a couple of days ago was dmb, handing you your ass. And yet you still don't get it... DUH! Look, what happens before the intellect kicks in and concepts are formed. Concepts and ideas are not "things." They are distilled from our perceptions of the immediate moment. They don't fit into containers they do not have desires and they do not compete with each other. [Bo] Plato was one of SOM's founding fathers and his dichotomy was Ideas vs Appearance, the former the eternal element (to become objective) while the latter was the fleeting element (to become subjective). And when one equalizes "Ideas" with Static and "apparent" with Dynamic one is completely lost. I rather believe that the "Summary" Pirsig compared Quality to Plato's eternal-to- become-objective and MOQ to the fleeting-to-become-subjective, but also this is deeply wrong and in contrast to Phaedrus original insight. [Krimel] One more time, slowly: Ideas are fixed constant eternal this is Static, Bo. The immediate present is changing slipper, unpredictable on this side of the pond we call that Dynamic. Nothing it lost here. > [Krimel] > Right, Quality is percept, Plato is concept. Ever changing reality and > fixed ideas! [Bo] Percept? Is that the same as perception? Or what is perceived?" At least Plato saw "the ever changing" as what just seem real but are mere shadows, while Ideas was the eternal entities that created the shadows. (The Cave parable) [Krimel] I went over this about three times yesterday in different ways. What you are having trouble with here is the version simplified so that Poincare's six year old could understand it. Quality is the dynamic ever changing immediate continuous present. Concepts are fix, discrete and static. Think about it. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
