> [Michael] > Sure, they recognize quality when they see it. Hell a dog recognizes it. The > difference is you (and most here) AFFIRM it as Quality. You add the capital > letter to it, and THAT takes faith. > > [Arlo] > Yikes! Well, now, everything is faith. All of it. Consider the above > sentence with regard to "light". > > Sure, they recognize light when they see it. Hell a dog recognizes > it. The > difference is you (and most here) AFFIRM it as Light. You add the > capital > letter to it, and THAT takes faith. > > Or the experience of "being cold"... > > Sure, they recognize being cold when they see it. Hell a dog > recognizes it. The > difference is you (and most here) AFFIRM it as Coldness. You add the > capital > letter to it, and THAT takes faith. > > And so in your zeal to reduce everything to a form of theism (what > ISN'T > theism, by the way?), everything is just faith. Everything is simply > another > flavor of Kool-Aid. > > "Affirmation" makes it faith? This is just saying that the moment > you > encapsulate something into language it becomes a "faith". Right... > so again, > because we affirm "quantum mechanics" that makes it just as faith > based as > Christian theism. Both the same. No different. Pick one. Doesn't > matter. They > are both theisms after all. Cherry and lime Kool-Aid. Both > religions. Haha. > > Everyone experiences pain. Even dogs. But should we name that pain > "Arthritis", > describe it in books, give it a definition, and tell people "that > pain you > feel, that's Arthritis", we are advancing a theism? A faith? And > this is no > different than someone else saying, "that pain you feel is a tiny, > invisible > Leprechaun living inside your body who sees you doing bad things and > hits your > bones with a magic hammer"? Both faith. Both theisms>? >
MP: Jesum Cro, Arlo. There's so many holes in there I don't know where to begin or if I even should. I'm sort of shocked actually. Faith <> Theism Theism <> Faith. It may take faith to hold theism, but that does not make them synonymous. One can have faith in things atheistic. One can even have theism without faith (literal creationism) We can prove arthritis exists. We can prove light exists. We can even prove quality exists by how people act. And as such we don't need faith to affirm their existence. We affirm them based on reason. But you can't prove through reason that Pirsig's Quality exists any more than I can prove God does. Those take faith. Pre-intellectual affirmation of the existence of something that cannot otherwise be proven rationally to exist. If you can't prove Quality exists rationally, and you aren't willing to accept you affirm Quality nonetheless through faith... how is it that you affirm it? What I can't understand is why it bothers you so much that it takes faith to affirm Quality. MP ---- "Don't believe everything you think." Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
