Michael, I think because our culture as Americans, a melting pot of many types of societies, makes this subject very difficult to address. I admire your gumption for trying to tackle it. First I believe there are many extenuating circumstances so varied that covering all of them with one broad brush and one law is not doing it justice, thats why I side with choice but choice with boundaries. Some would say that a higher level (society} restricting biology is acceptable within a dynamic framework. I feel choice falls into that catagory. I think most people value human life and this plays a big role in the decision and the consequences of making such a choice. I feel it should play a bigger role in sex education so that people are aware of the possibilities when engaging in sexual intercourse, If you havent thought about this, you probably should'nt be having sex, for there is no such thing as sex without consequences. Ultimately We are talking about human lives. This topic touches on the subject of euthenasia, just when is it acceptable to end a human life, if there is such a thing as acceptability in this matter. For myself, I would like the opportunity of choice. If I am brain dead, I would choose to pass but I would not make this choice for someone else. If faced with abortion, I would choose not to abort, Likewise I would'nt make that choice for someone else. The difficult question one must ask themselves is are they willing to make that choice for someone else, mothers murder ther children frequently in our society they leave newborns in dumpsters and are tried for it in a court of law. Yet when it is done before a certain point in utero development it falls into a different catagory. Murder is acceptable in war but not in peace, since there are no absolutes, the words "to every thing there is a season applies" I think people are free to make their own decisions but there are consequences and these should be weighed. In my experience Michael, things happen, without right and wrongs, people get killed, people are murdered and right and wrong doesent seem to help make sense of it. -Ron
________________________________ From: Michael Poloukhine <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:04:14 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Morality, Abortion and the MoQ I'm changing the subject on my reply. Feel free to continue under that subject or ignore. > Platt: > People here can try to tell others here how to behave, but I doubt > it will > have any effect. But, general moral issues such as abortion, war or > the > proper role of government seem to me to be legitimate subjects for > discussion. After all, Lila is billed as An Inquiry into Morals. So > let's > continue the inquiry.? > > Ron; > Then by all means lets get the ball rolling, I feel it is every > womens right to a safe > legal abortion if she so chooses, however I do feel some > stipulations would apply > such as counciling on the alternatives, parental consent below the > age of 18 and > counciling on the consequences of taking such action, also I think > limiting it to > the first tri-mester has some ethical considerations to discuss, but > since I am > not a woman and I am not pregnant, I have little to base my opinions > on. If I was > irresponsible enough to have concieved with someone who does not > feel the same as I do > about the topic and situation, I feel the fact remains that it is > she?who is the?one carring > our baby to term and the responsibility and choice remains with > her. > MP: FWIW Ron, You have expressed your personal opinion. That is all well and good. But how does that opinion relate to your cultural make-up and how does it relate to the MoQ. My immediate reaction is that I see conflicts. My only interest in the subject (and for practical purposes I inadvertently started it by saying I was hesitant to do so) is not so much individual opinions, (I have my own, the voicing of which would surely only fan the flames here, and then as much for the fact that people would be presuming what it is and why I hold it) which for the most part on this subject are highly culturally driven, but rather what we all think the *MoQ* morality is on the subject. I have hesitated to start such a thread because I don't think we are up to the task. I remain so, but think its possible if we are disciplined and diligent in checking our emotions and our conviction in our opinion at the door. I don't expect there to be a clear cut MoQ moral answer, MoQ has a tendency to slip into moral relativity due to the complexity of patterns making the decisions under such MoQ judicial scrutiny. But the interest I expressed was one of how would MoQ morality illuminate what has without question become a battle ground of *cultural morality.* To approach this without it erupting into flames it seems to me we need to, each individually, examine our positions and sort out what part is culturally driven and why, and then see what remains that can be said to be pre-cultural. Only then can we see what MoQ can say of it. This is why I parsed it down to a discussion of human life v. individual freedom in that other thread with you. IMO, the morality question lies in how the two issues of human life and individual freedom, and in this case competing ones, are weighed against each other on a moral scale: Life: - Nascent (embryonic), pre-birth, post-birth life... all equal? Why? Why not? - Woman's life v. the above life/lives (say "new life" to try to be neutral) Both: - Applicability of the choices below across the spectrum of types of life above (eg: is abort for DS the morally the same as kill child with DS? Why? Why not?) Freedom: - Woman's choice v. the above life/lives - Man's choice v. Woman's choice - Society v. all the above (Woman's choice & life, "new" life, Man's choice) etc. I bet, (if we can get that far,) if we answer those questions culturally, and compare them to those we get MoQ'ally we'll see some stark differences, and THAT is where we will see MoQ shedding light on the issue. But seems to me the MoQ position on it would be that the MoQ moral position is the Quality one, those cultural and societal ones that conflict with it are less so, or else static. The key is not to argue about our positions but to collect as much data as we can and then be willing to compare it with open minds; cultural differences are what the fights are invariably about on this issue. MP ---- "Don't believe everything you think." Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
