Hi KO, > 2009/3/24 Platt Holden <[email protected]> > > > > > I accept that finches change beaks to adopt to changing conditions. > > > What is your explanation for how the finches change beaks to adapt to > changing conditions? > > > > > But I reserve judgment on "oops," an entirely new species. > > > Wikipedia suggests that the simplest way of understanding what makes a > species is whether a group of organisms is capable of interbreeding and > producing fertile offspring - will that do for you?
No. It doesn't explain how the organisms got that capability. > I suppose it is > possible > that a Great Dane could still manage to breed with a Chihuahua, but not > without difficulty - haha! I daresay that dog breeders could > deliberately > create some breeds where it was no longer physically possible for them > to > breed. I realise that this would not really constitute a new species but > my > point is that if a divergence and difference like the Great Dane and > Chihuahua can be artificially engineered by man in only a few thousand > years > then given a billion years natural selection can diverge a species into > two. I think you are describing the species called dog. How a dog becomes a walrus is the question. > [P] > > > > For instance, there's Pirsig's question, > > > > "Why survive?" > > > > [K] > > > This is a great question. .......... One answer is that its more > painful > > to do otherwise. If we > > > dont go to get something to eat then we suffer hunger - that is just > the > > way > > > things are, like the physical world out there - those objects will > hurt > > > you if you walk into them!..... > > > [P] > > Good answer. But, I still wonder why life is opposed to physical forces, > as > > Pirsig asks. His answer: DQ pulling/pushing towards betterness > I think that Darwin's 'natural selection' is more or less the same idea > as > Pirsig's 'dynamic quality', the phraseology being different only because > they originate out of different scholarly disciplines. Maybe so. Pirsig expounds at great length in Chap. 11 of Lila how DQ created life and new life forms. > > [P] > > If evolution simply means change, yes, things change. No argument > there. > > > I think evolution means not merely change but change for the better > resulting in increased organisation. > > The question is, "Why?" > > > Answer - for immortalities sake! Freddy Mercury sang with pathos: 'Who > wants > to live forever?' Well i do! However experience tells me i will die and > i > would like the option to voluntarily check out when the going gets too > tough > and i can no longer fend for myself. All life strives to survive and > persist > and, in the face of hazard, to reproduce and further continue. This is > my > most fundamental nature and if i ask 'why' it is only because i seek > better > ways to survive. My religious upbringing, born out of the natural > advantages > of working with others towards a common goal, assured me that the path > to > life everlasting was to serve the good personified in God - but my own > experience has led me to the conclusion that their figurehead was merely > a > fiction. Well, we won't really know if it's fiction or not until we die will we? I think Plato put it best:"Either there is nothing after death and we will not know we are dead or there is life when eternity is but a single moment." > > [P] > > Are not chance mutations fundamental to the creation of changes > Darwinian > > theory attempts to explain? That's what I meant by "creative role." > > > Yes, hazard is around every corner but the title of Darwin's famous book > is > 'On the Origin of Species By Means of Natural Selection'. There are deep > connections in the notions of chance as randomness, chance as > opportunity, > chance and choice, election and selection; it's damned bad luck to end > up > sitting on a hot stove but its our long history of natural selection > that > makes us get off there pdq and without a second thought. It's a biological response, for sure, entirely predictable. . > [P] > > No doubt. What about a sunset? A flower? An elegant theory? > > > This is a whole other topic really but i do think the meaning and > significance of art is connected with the idea of persistence also. Art is sometimes about ugliness, but never mind. The question is why did we evolve to look in awe at a sunset? > > [P] > > > > Etc. If Ridley's book answers these and other questions, please > > > > let me know. I'll get a copy. In the meantime, the interview I > > > recommend is based on a book Ridley is currently working on about > the > > rise and > > > fall of civilizations. Given that Western civilization is on a > downward > > > spiral, Ridley may have some ideas on how to slow our slouching to > > Gomorrah. > > > > [K] > > > I'll have a read of that article now. > > > > [P] > > I'd like to know what you think of it. > > > Sounds like it will be a really interesting book which i intend to buy > and > read. I dont have very firm political views and find it difficult to > confidently enter political discussions but this book looks like it will > give a good insight into macro-economics and what makes the human world > go > around. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I'll be interested to know you reaction to the book. If you recommend it I may also get a copy.. Platt Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
