________________________________
From: Michael Poloukhine <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 1:21:31 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Morality, Abortion and the MoQ
MP:
Either MoQ has pragmatic moral relevance on the societal level or it is a
pointless exercise and waste of intellectual energy. Ron's suggestion about the
MoQ boils it down to nothing but a moral relativistic anarchy. That's just anti-
theistic appropriation of the MoQ as a means of justifying pre-conceived,
STATIC notions as far as I'm concerned.
Ron:
Well, it does have pragmatic value. It's moral relevance lies in the dependance
on
the supporting levels. What I suggested is it's ultimate meaning in universal
terms, that is, that Quality is be-ing. Understanding how the levels relate
creates
a moral guide on social issues, society controls biological quality.
Intellectual
quality controls social quality. Therefore the Quality you speak of is
contextual.
Now, if you interpret this as anti theistic or morally relativistic anarchy
then perhaps
what you seek is an absolute moral "dipstick".
MP:
What I find fascinating from the reactions here is that when it comes to
defending one's own personal beliefs, MoQ always seems to be the shield to
MoQers. But when it comes time to accepting that those of others may be
equally valid, it becomes the sword.
Convenient. Disingenuous, and intellectually bankrupt. But convenient.
Sure I've picked two hot button issues so far. Why shouldn't I? MoQ is
presented by Pirsig as a replacement to previous thinking on reality. It is
presented as the resolution to the conflicts inherent in previous thinking on
reality. It is presented as a greater evolution of cultural faith and science.
And
MoQ is presented as a fundamentally moral understanding of reality.
But if MoQ is then relevant only about vegetarianism, but not about faith, or
life,
or other fundamental human questions... WTF good is MoQ?
Ron:
It is relevant, I think you are so frustrated at the moment that everyone is
being seen
as getting down on you, it has happened to me in the past. Again, the tact you
are taking
is an analytical one, Moq cites analytics as part of the problem of SOM. The
assumption
is that MOQ must yield logical, analytical solutions to be viable. It does not
work in this manner
it is not a logical systematic formula for social moral issues, it is a way of
understanding how
and why social issues of morality function the way it does.
> Ham wrote:
> Pirsig in the ZAMM "The solution is not to condemn
> the culture as stupid but to look for those factors that will make
> the new information acceptable: the keys. "
MP: LoL. Thanks for that quote Ham. How come I'm not surprised Marsha or
any other MoQer here hasn't trotted it out before?
The whole sum of all my discussions here about faith was all about looking for
"the keys." My attempts with the issue of abortion, likewise; looking how MoQ
can shed light on the subject. Interesting that I should have been so roundly
condemned in the name of MoQ for my suggestions when I was doing the very
thing Pirsig himself say we should do to move cultures into Dynamic change.
> Ham wrote:
> Good luck with your query, Michael.
MP: Yeah, well, I have better things to do, to be sure. I'm becoming more and
more convinced I'm better off just thinking about MoQ on my own.
Ron:
This is not a sarcastic remark Michael, I am very sincere when I say this,
thinking
about MoQ on your own IS the best path to take at the moment. But by all means
do not drop from the discussion. Keep up the questioning keep pursuing your
intrests
by reading up on moral philosophy, grow.
MP
----
"Don't believe everything you think."
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
