Andre: I am mere adhering to Pirsig's own division of Quality here (Lila, p119): DQ/SQ. Are you suggesting that Pirsig hasn't written his own MoQ properly? [Krimel] I think Pirsig is vague on this point and this has led to different interpretations.
Andre: There is nothing vague about this. How can I (rather Pirsig) remove Quality from the MoQ by 'dividing Quality into DQ/SQ?? i.e as the basic division of his emerging MoQ? (Lila p 119). SQ swims in the river called DQ. SQ is immersed in DQ as little patterned revelations of Quality. One cannot remove Quality from this, not even with the biggest front-end loader in the world. 'Dust in the wind' as the song goes and all static patterns of quality are the dust and the wind is DQ. [Krimel] Well unless we want to talk in smiley faces and emoticons, that is kind of the nature of the beast, wouldn't you say? Andre: Whatever you mean by this Krimel, I do not understand. If there is some interpretation of mine about the MoQ that you do not agree with just tell me and we discuss right? [Krimel] I do prefer to think of SQ and DQ as ways of describing Quality. I actually think the DQ/SQ has more promise but not at all in the way Pirsig describes it. If DQ is equated with chaos and SQ with order, this works very well. Order is a subset of chaos. The most critical point in either case is to lose the idea that DQ is Good. In fact I think on the whole DQ is bad, very bad. Andre: 'Dynamic Quality is the pre-intellectual cutting edge of reality, the source of all things, completely simple and always new....It contains no pattern of fixed rewards or punishments. Its only perceived good is freedom and its only perceived evil is staic quality itself- any pattern of one-sided fixed values that tries to contain and kill the ongoing free force of life.(op cit.). DQ is... . There is no good or bad. If only living 'things' can respond to DQ the resultant action is no reflection, nor responsibility on or of the nature or quality of DQ. What static patterns 'do' with DQ is their responsibility. I have said in an earlier post that some social static patterns have much to gain by (ab)using DQ to further their own interests. It is an area which Pirsig designated as the Giant...an economic/socio/ political/ philosophical/religious 'force' that has everything to gain by keeping things as they are. Ultimately Pirsig couldn't say much about it as these are forces playing at the social/intellectual intersection which are in continuous battle with eachother. The rust belt. My humble opinion is that the intellectual level is still too much divided. It doesn't know itself very well, it tries to please its parent and grand-parent and in this compromise leaves most ordinary people bewildered and lost.And thereby pissed off and tending towards slightly more clear (and extreme) forms of 'guidance'. A return to tradition and what is known ( or remembered)...hence static patterns of (bygone) quality. For what it is worth. Andre Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
