Krimel said: The MoQ does add a metaphysical underpinning for evolutionary theory. Both are about how stability arises and persists in the face of dynamic change. Or to put it more boldly how Order arises from Chaos. This is the most basic and fundamental theme in both the Mythos and the Logos. The reason evolutionary theory is so pervasive and crosses so many disciplines is that it addresses this theme. This is what gives evolutionary theory its elegance, beauty and power. I am always disappointed when Chapter 11 comes up because in it Pirsig shows he does not appreciate the power of evolutionary thinking nor how the MoQ really serves to enhance it. His focus on betterness and acceptance of a teleological account of evolution contribute mightily to keeping the MoQ on the fringe.
dmb says: Although you've not said so explicitly this time, I can see that you are once again equating DQ with Chaos. That construes DQ as confusion, disorder and randomness. This is approximately the opposite of what Pirsig says about it. It is not "arbitrary or capricious", he says. It's the basis of the order and harmony of the static ordered world. I'd also object because the term more or less refers to a disorganized physical state while DQ is not a state of things but an event, an experience. And this is where the betterness comes in. Its better to be off the hot stove, for example. The idea here is that DQ is a sense that guides and pulls or pushes in a direction that will improve the situation. This way of sensing the overall quality of the situation, positive or negative, is at the cutting edge of every moment and is the basis on which we select what to notice within the overall situation and then these noticed features are organized according to a conceptual framework, the categories of language and all that. In this cutting edge moment, the first thing you know is a generalized feeling tone, a sense of the quality of the situation. As we see in the language of radical empiricism this is the pure experience prior to the distinction even between experiencer and what's being experienced, between subject and object, between your burning ass and the hot stove. You immediately know its bad even before you know what or why. And this is the sense in which there is a teleology. Its not that some final outcome has already been decided and everything inevitable moves toward this end. Its just that things move in a general direction, although at different levels, in different contexts. I mean betterness in philosophy isn't the same as betterness in hunting, love-making or rock music. Vultures and I have very different ideas about what's better for dinner and yet we DO both have our preferences and we both act upon them. Can you think of anything that does not move in the direction of betterness, within its own terms I mean? Krimel said: ...the more I read of Eastern thinking the more I see that like western thinking there are factions and subtexts and internal arguments and that any characterization of "Eastern Thinking" is as much an over simplification as talking about "Western Thinking". Both are rich enough and diverse enough to resist being lump together as one entity. dmb says: Yea, I've heard objections like that before. The point would be more worth making, I suppose, if somebody used such broad categories to make absolutist claims or assert universal truths or whatever. But there's nothing wrong with generalizations. They're neither more nor less useful than any other abstraction. And since Pirsig's work is a fusion of Eastern and Western philosophies, you'll have to tolerate or even (gasp!) use these terms. _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail®: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Mobile2_042009 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
