Interesting,
how one may dismiss perhaps it has occured that right wing ideology is the polar, of its SOM sister perhaps not perhaps it has occured that MoQ sees the value of both separating lo-from high why not approach this way you can't have one without the other and if one thinks that uncle Bob is saying that you can then that is missing what he is really saying. research do the reading investing in knowledge is never a waste of time when trying to honostly understand what another REALLY means with what they say. backround in context is clarity in meaning. then there may be no harsh diputes. ________________________________ From: Platt Holden <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:04:51 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Northrop and the failure of neo-conservative free ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre Broersen" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 5:27 AM > Platt to andre: > You mean I don't understand plain English? > > Andre: > I am sure you do Platt, but do you comprehend it? This means going into some > depth realising whatever you say has some sort of history (and a rich one). Yes, and the same applies to you. Do you comprehend the history of the MOQ and why Pirsig favors free markets over SOM socialism? > Platt: > Those doctrines as you call them are irrelevant to Pirsig's reason for > endorsing free market capitalism over socialism. Do you think any of them > ever imagined anything like Dynamic Quality? > > Andre: > Those doctrines are what set Pirsig on the road to writing ZMM and Lila. He > recognised the defect in them. Right. In the MOQ he overcomes the defect in SOM. > Platt: > Pirsig's indictment is aimed at the flaw in SOM intellect's attempts to > manage society. Surely you don't believe that Marxist socialist doctrines > somehow escaped SOM.. > > Andre: > Now we are getting closer Platt, Pirsig is not only aiming his attack at > socialist societies. Socialist societies have not escaped SOM.All modern, > Western societies have evolved from the same 'philosophical' tree. As > Anthony suggests: Read Northrop! Right, and you don't need to read Northrop to know that after reading Lila. > Platt: > Are you suggesting socialists and communists don't exist? As for free market > capitalism being degenerating, I agree with Pirsig's opposite view that it > is a "Dynamic institution." > > Andre: > Yes, it is dynamic, but Pirsig himself, having recognised his own 'radical > bias' ( causing him to think of Dynamic Quality alone and neglect static > patterns of quality) came to the conclusion that 'Life cannot exist on > Dynamic Quality alone...To cling to Dynamic Quality alone apart from any > static patterns is to cling to chaos' (Lila p 124). It is precisely > the social and intellectual static patterns that have evolved from from the > likes of Locke, Descartes, Adam Smith, etc, etc Pirsig laments. > This unbridled Dynamic Quality has, economically turned into the Giant (as > Pirsig calls it). It has, and continues to convert 'accumulated biological > energy into forms that serve itself'. The value of a human being is measured > by the extent to which it is useful as an economic unit. And if you are ill, > or incapacitated in some way, or fired or, heaven forbid, if you do not want > to play in this game, you are considered useless, a bludger, a misfit, a > burden on society. And if you are a SOM leftist you pretend to care about all the "victims" of the mean, selfish capitalists so you can pose as their savior and vote for laws that make them dependent on government in order to gain power for yourself. > And, if intellectually, you place question marks as to the morality of this > institution you are labelled a commie. Do you ever question the morality of socialism? Why is it moral to seek power over others who mind their own business and never initiate physical force on anyone? > Plat: >> I'm disappointed. > Me too. It seems your anti-protestant and philosophical/political/economic > views have > built up an immunity in your mind against what Pirsig actually says. > > Andre: > Not sure what you mean here Platt. I do however think that most of the above > mentioned ideas and convictions have proven to be of low quality.And I do > not have many static patterns to which I desperately cling and attempt > to fit Pirsig's observations as justification around them. In that sense I > have very little to lose. When I review the history of the 20th century I find the various forms of socialism as practiced to be of far lower quality than capitalism. I was under the impression you came to the same conclusion with your experience in China. Perhaps I was mistaken. > And, as always I stand corrected. And, as always I could be wrong. Regards, Platt Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
