On Monday 18 May 2009 7:35 AM Krimel answers John: <snip> > [Krimel] > There you have it, money is a way of measuring value. The idea that some > kind of mythical market is the only means of apportioning value is a satanic > view advanced by the Raygun revolution. People were not quite so stupid > prior to 1980. Hopefully the folly of the foolishness has been amply > demonstrated and we can finally put it behind us. > > Think about what you are saying. A free market really means a chance market. > It means that value is assigned through a series of random acts without any > intellectual interference. This is why basketball players get millions and > teachers get squat. It is why the shady dealings of hedge fund managers and > corporate raiders are richly rewarded and secretaries and police officers > are lucky to make ends meet. <snip>
Hi Krimel, John and all, I don¹t know that I have anything to add to the argument. It seems that the language of science, mathematics, is the prevailing political language. Precision rules. Metaphor, house of cards; analogy, like a bull-dozer; are real arguments for describing some social behavior. A hierarchy in evolution to a social and further to an intellectual level seems to be beyond politics. A political formula in mathematical terms denies the meaning and joy of metaphysics in politics and makes the ideas of a minority party nothing but a hard slog. Joe On 5/18/09 7:35 AM, "Krimel" <[email protected]> wrote: >> [Krimel] >> But money is never the SOURCE of value. The source of value is the things >> we acquire using money. Money is always a measure of Value as in "How much >> does that cost?" This works really, really well in a whole variety of >> situations, especially the redistribution of wealth and of scarce goods >> and services. But there are many areas where it is completely > inappropriate >> of value. I listed medicine and education but love, family, monopolies, > law >> as a measure and politics are others were its role is pernicious and its >> influence should be minimized. > > [John] > Ah my friend, you are absolutely right but absolutely wrong. Money should > never be the source of value, but it more than often is. > > [Krimel] > No, it is not. No one values money for its own sake, no one, ever. Money > ONLY has value in virtue of the social understanding of what money is and > what you can do with it. Even the very wealthy, who seem to use it as a way > of keeping score, value you money for what it means not for what it is. > > [John] > How many decisions > of Quality are shortchanged due to monetary considerations in an average > man's life? You hear this dilemma in every sphere of social discourse. > Money should NOT be a source of value. It should be a MEASUREMENT of value > and modified in the most free and open market ways possible. That is the > highest good that I can see right now. > > [Krimel] > There you have it, money is a way of measuring value. The idea that some > kind of mythical market is the only means of apportioning value is a satanic > view advanced by the Raygun revolution. People were not quite so stupid > prior to 1980. Hopefully the folly of the foolishness has been amply > demonstrated and we can finally put it behind us. > > Think about what you are saying. A free market really means a chance market. > It means that value is assigned through a series of random acts without any > intellectual interference. This is why basketball players get millions and > teachers get squat. It is why the shady dealings of hedge fund managers and > corporate raiders are richly rewarded and secretaries and police officers > are lucky to make ends meet. > > [John] > When money becomes the source of value, evil - that is, bad programming, > enters into the matrix. > > [Krimel] > Exactly, but you only get to that realization by swallowing the Red Pill. > There is still a lot of Blue Pill thinking out there. > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
