The problem is social looseness, Platt. not intellectual, social. "the results of the new social looseness weren't turning out as predicted." Intellectual patterns that undermine social quality are lo quality intellectual patterns. This quote supports Dmb, you realize this right?
greed, as an intellectual pattern, as hedonism, undermines high quality social patterns. Intellectual selfishness is immoral, thats what Pirsig is saying. ________________________________ From: Platt Holden <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:09:24 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Protestant Capitalism What DMB omits from his slanted left-wing socialist interpretation of the MOQ is the following: "In the time that Phaedrus grew up, intellect was dominant over society, but the results of the new social looseness weren't turning out as predicted. Something was wrong. The world was no doubt in better shape intellectually and technologically but despite that, somehow, the "quality" of it was not good. There was no way you could say why this quality was no good. You just felt it." (Lila, 22) So much for intellectual control of society. The rest of the stuff about dumb conservatives is straight out of the radical left's book of talking points, repeated daily in their blogs. Platt On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 7:25 PM, david buchanan <[email protected]>wrote: > > Platt said to Krimel: > The last thing we need is "intellectual interference" by some central > planner in Washington like Krimel who in his arrogance thinks he knows how > to spend my money better than than I do. In that direction lies tyranny. > > > dmb says: > There is no way to square this talk-radio nonsense with the MOQ. > Chapters 22 and 24 of Lila cover politics and both chapters are full of > examples and explanations. Naturally, Pirsig's comments about the dynamism > of free markets have to be understood in the context of those other > political comments. They are many quotable quotes to quote if one wanted to > make a case for socialism. The very same distortion could easily be pushed > in the opposite direction. But it's probably a lot more important to > understand ALL the comments so that they fit together into a larger, > coherent picture. Instead, your case is way too selective and way too > emphatic. > If you look at those chapters it's pretty clear that the over-riding theme > is the conflict between static social quality and static intellectual > quality. Discussions of the relative dynamism of economies aren't > unimportant, but the conflict between levels is the star of the show. The > historical examples are useful in explaining which political ideologies are > social and which are intellectual. This is as useful for understanding the > levels as it is for understanding politics. And this is where you see the > big picture, where you see who is who in the social-intellectual conflict. > The MOQ doesn't paint socialism as "tyranny", not unless the word suddenly > means "dull". The MOQ supports the various laws and programs that impose > intellectual control on social level values. It says this is more moral. > Examples include the Bill of Right, FDR's New Deal, LBJ's Great Society and > more extreme European examples. Pirsig has criticisms to make, cites their > mistakes and such, but are still deemed better and morally superior to an > uncontrolled social level economy. The MOQ doesn't reject socialism or > "intellectual interference". It doesn't embrace free markets. The MOQ > advocates intellectual control that also recognizes the advantages of > dynamism. It only corrects socialism. The MOQ doesn't condemn it. > Social levels values have bee expressed as anti-intellectual movements > stretching all the way back to the Victorians. Extreme examples include > fascism and fundamentalism. One would hope that today's conservatives would > be milder than that but there's a shocking amount of overlap with the > extremists. Any you, sir, are an example of one of these. Anyway, the > anti-intellectuals don't exactly look like the good guys in this war. He's > not cheering for capitalism so much as pointing out what's good about it, > what the intellectual level ideologies should take on board. Pirsig reserves > some of his most brutal insults for people of this anti-intellectual mind > set. Bigoted, ignorant, hopelessly static, hopelessly stupid, cold and > brittle. That fits into the big picture too. That makes sense in terms of > what social values are, what they look like in real life. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail® has a new way to see what's up with your friends. > > http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/WhatsNew?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_WhatsNew1_052009 > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
