interesting dave. is meliorism best served by denying reincarnation? by avoiding the issue of death and what happens after? i dunno i tend to think we have skirted around the very natural issue of death in the west, whereas in the east you could say they have *empirical* evidence of what happens...tibetan book of the dead etc autobiography of a yogi also deals with this issue in depth - the triune reality, a la tarot: physical, astral and causal planes of existence. according to what i have read on the subject we are reborn on the astral plane when we die, returning to earth if we need to to work out any remaining stuff (karma)....once that is done the same to and fro twixt the astral and causal planes. the east's traditional ease and resignation vis-a-vis death, relative to the west at least, is more amenable to caring for what exists beyond this incarnation...if we know that death is a transformation and that we will likely return to earth one day....easier to give a shit i'd say. and in any case - your reason for being here, the point of it all: to evolve, to become perfect, to move forever towards quality....does this not mean more than living and dying in some brief, meaningless and dull existence? which one rings true?
are we really in a position to say that all this stuff on death and dying is irrelevant - can we pick and choose like that? is that good? i would say that if the rest of buddhism,hinduism, seems to gel with the MOQ, chances are the death stuff does too. death....and beyond....we don't deal with it really....we are ignorant and therefore scared. --- On Thu, 28/5/09, david buchanan <[email protected]> wrote: From: david buchanan <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MD] An Introduction to Robert Pirsig's Metaphysics of Quality To: [email protected] Received: Thursday, 28 May, 2009, 4:24 AM Marsha quoted from Dr. McWatt's textbook, "An Introduction to Robert Pirsig's Metaphysics of Quality": >From 5.8.0. Differences Between the MOQ and Eastern Philosophy: "Despite keeping within Eastern understanding (by using Dynamic Quality) to incorporate the theory of evolution, Pirsig discards any notion of reincarnation or rebirth in the MOQ. This is probably due to his avoidance of supernatural explanations wherever possible. "For scientists, the mind of the Buddha and the Mind of God are usually the same, even though the Buddha was an atheist. I think it is extremely important to emphasize that the MOQ is pure empiricism. There is nothing supernatural in it." (Pirsig, 2000e) Instead of trying to achieve a better situation in your next life, the primary moral imperative in Pirsig's system is the effect your behavior will have on your descendants. This is probably the widest departure of the MOQ from the Indo-Chinese tradition." dmb says:Thanks, Marsha & Ant. If I'm reading this right, making the switch from re-incarnation to one's descendants removes supernaturalism from the picture but retains a moral stance about future lives. The moral imperative is still directed beyond the present but it remains earthbound. Putting this moral stance within the context of the theory of evolution, I think, alters the way we think about the nature of that process. The aim isn't just a matter of continued survival but a matter of assuming some responsibility for ensuring a better future. There is a dimension of betterness that is uniquely Pirsigian, I think, but most Pragmatist emphasize this idea. "MELIORISM: noun, Philosophy, the belief that the world can be made better by human effort, from Latin, melior = 'better' + ISM." There are several commonly known phrases that suggest we're not very moral in this respect; "global warming", "peak oil", "nuclear war", "second-coming" and "strip malls". I mean, this moral stance is not about the fate of your own soul or even the well-being of your own great, great, great, great, great, grandchildren. This is an unselfish imperative, no? Do unto your descendants seven generations from now as you would have your ancestors from seven generations ago do unto you. Okay, that's a pretty clumsy sentence but you get the picture. _________________________________________________________________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd1_052009 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Need a Holiday? Win a $10,000 Holiday of your choice. Enter now.http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxN2x2ZmNpBF9zAzIwMjM2MTY2MTMEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzk3NwR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=14600t3ni/**http%3A//au.rd.yahoo.com/mail/tagline/creativeholidays/*http%3A//au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/%3Fp1=other%26p2=au%26p3=mailtagline Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
