[gav] i tend to think we have skirted around the very natural issue of death in the west, whereas in the east you could say they have *empirical* evidence of what happens...tibetan book of the dead etc autobiography of a yogi also deals with this issue in depth - the triune reality, a la tarot: physical, astral and causal planes of existence. according to what i have read on the subject we are reborn on the astral plane when we die, returning to earth if we need to to work out any remaining stuff (karma)....once that is done the same to and fro twixt the astral and causal planes.
[Krimel] If the Tibetan Book of the Dead is *empirical* evidence then so is Lord of the Rings. It seems to me they both synthesis the folklore of their people. Your triune reality might as well be father, son and holy spirit. From some of the things I have read, in a life after this one we are reunited with our loved ones, all our questions are answered and we give eternal thanks for all that we have been given. The west has hardly skirted these issues. I do agree with you that if one is allowed to strip away the parts of any religion that seem either absurd or offensive that religion seems a whole lot more reasonable. It certainly will have an advantage when compared to another point of view from which you have seen fit to strip away all the parts that seem salutary. The difference between karma and divine will is a matter of spelling. There are more things in heaven and earth, gav, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. [gav] the east's traditional ease and resignation vis-a-vis death, relative to the west at least, is more amenable to caring for what exists beyond this incarnation...if we know that death is a transformation and that we will likely return to earth one day....easier to give a shit i'd say. and in any case - your reason for being here, the point of it all: to evolve, to become perfect, to move forever towards quality....does this not mean more than living and dying in some brief, meaningless and dull existence? which one rings true? [Krimel] Ringing sounds differently depending on who's banging the gong and which gong is being banged. If what you are saying that you have an ear for eastern gong, God bless you brother... [gav] are we really in a position to say that all this stuff on death and dying is irrelevant - can we pick and choose like that? is that good? i would say that if the rest of buddhism,hinduism, seems to gel with the MOQ, chances are the death stuff does too. death....and beyond....we don't deal with it really....we are ignorant and therefore scared. [Krimel] ...but I think you mean more. You seem to be saying that the eastern spiritual tradition offers a set of practices, ceremonies, beliefs and rituals designed to produce not only spiritual experiences but an interpretation of them. It seems to me the western spiritual tradition does the same thing. Other than "amenability" you have offered nothing to suggest to someone with an ear for a western tones, why they should find harmony where you do or why someone with an eclectic ear should listen to one to the exclusion of the other. Isn't that the point of the MoQ? What gives your view a privileged claim to Truth or even truth? One or two threads over dmb, called me a scientific dogmatist. That just sounds like an oxymoron to me. Science is anti-dogmatic. It is rooted in skepticism. It recognizes the tentative nature of truth and offers nothing more than a best guess. It insists that concepts are subordinate to perception. It states its assumptions and invites questioning of them. Does this give science a privileged claim to Truth or even truth. Not really. But I would say to anyone two-stepping to a different gong that if we have guess on these matter, why not make it our best guess? Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
