Ron, I don't mean to butt in here but Dave has brought up my name and totally distorted my position so I will try to give it just the attention is deserve which should be very little.
dmb says: Also, I'd point out that when the parts so derived "seem to possess an independence", the derived concepts are reified or made into metaphysical realities that we believe to be the foundation of things. This is what Krimel does when he refutes the idea of a primary empirical reality with an explanation of those secondary concepts. [Krimel] First of all I have never tried to "...refute the idea of a primary empirical reality" I have in fact been trying to explore just what that might mean in terms that actually make sense. I have used James as readily as Damasio in that effort. Hence my talks on perception and conception and emotion. [dmb] He keeps insisting that experience is the transduction of energy of the objective reality by the subjective experiencer. [Krimel] Here I am merely parroting what Bolte-Taylor meant when she said that we are energy beings exchanging energy with the environment. But what I have said is that experience BEGINS with transduction of energy into neural impulses. I never ever said that is what experience IS. [dmb] In other words, subjects and objects are rendered primary, the structure of reality which makes experience possible. [Krimel] If I have used the terms subject and object it was in the context of them as concepts subsumed or reduced to the MoQ. Whatever their metaphysical status they remain useful pointers to particular points of view, public versus private experience. But I have never called them primary. That is just Dave lamely whitewashing the world from his palette of labels. I suspect that you, Ron ,can see through this ruse of Dave's but I thought others might actually take him seriously. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
