On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Krimel <[email protected]> wrote:
When we have an experience, we are essentially filtering in certain stimuli
> from the environment. Something is lost right at the moment of sensation
> since our senses only respond to a certain range of input everything
> outside
> of that range is killed. Once we have a sensation and we try to assimilate
> it into our conceptual schema those parts of it that don't fit are either
> killed or held in abeyance waiting to pile up enough incongruity to force
> our schema to accommodate to new data.
>
[John]
I have some vague recollection of an understanding that a lot of what we
ignore gets into our brains anyway. You can access it with hypnosis, for
instance. And the thought came to me as I was reading your analysis, that
maybe this information that we ignore contributes to the unconscious
realization of Quality we can't consciously define, but somehow intuitively
"feel". An interesting idea.
More Krimel}
> So yes when we divide the world into parts something is killed. When we do
> it well, what is killed s specifically and intentionally a bunch of stuff
> that doesn't matter at the moment. It is true that sometimes what we elect
> to ignore or what we are unable to perceive turn out to be important. If
> that's the case we will discover it soon enough and no about of wandering
> about aimlessly looking for it in advance is going to help.
>
{John]
I think that is a very good point you make about "aimlessly looking for it
in advance". The implication to me is the value of unfocused meditation -
something I usually have a hard time getting excited about but by your
explanation, starts to make some sense.
And then, you go even go further with explaining emotions in mammals which
really perked up my ears because of the dialogue I've been enjoying with
Arlo:
But let's look at your specific charge of "greedy reductionism" with regards
> to experience and physiology. We know and have known for a long time that
> emotions are a form of mental activity that is favored among mammals. As an
> evolutionary event, emotions contribute to the survival of individuals
> through the flight or fight response. They also contribute to the survival
> of mammalian young as a bond between parents and among parents and
> offspring.
>
We know that emotions are localized in the brain in the evolutionarily
> significant parts of the midbrain where they are found in most mammals. We
> also know that humans have evolved large areas in both hemispheres of the
> brain that give us rational thought. Those areas in the neo-cortex work for
> us by combining inputs from all over the brain. They allow us to access our
> senses and our memories and to compare the past with the present. The net
> effect is to help us rationally decide whether to go with our automatic
> habits or our emotional inclinations or to come up with something
> completely
> novel. It isn't emotions or rational thought broken into pieces that
> matters
> it is the integration and synthesis of this different modalities that get
> us
> through the night.
>
> The idea that science or any form of rational inquiry can be divorced from
> emotion turns out to be false. Without emotional valence, facts, knowledge
> and ideas are meaningless.
John}
yay Krimel! This is something I've asserted for a long time, but you just
did a much more reasoned job of it than me.
Rationality is dependent upon emotions which are dependent upon breasts.
It might be technically reductionist, if you took it that way, but it's also
extremely enlightening with the proper synthesis/analysis/different
modalities approach.
Krimel]
>
> I would actually appreciate a reasoned and reasonable attack on my
> position.
> That is why I put it out there. I think you are actually capable of it and
> you could help me gain a better understanding of the issues that I tend to
> be unhealthily obsessed with.
John]
Well hopefully Dave can help you out there. I am more impressed with your
contribution than critical.
--
------------
Self is simply Choice, so choose good
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