Bear tastes good John and he stengthns my body and that of my family we eat the plants from the ground too. we drink of the water from the land. we breath its air. every moment is about life and death. it is a ritual that humbles me and makes me appreciative and thankfull about the communion with the universe. Do you feel this way about a cheeseburger?
I thought the post leaned heavily on the morality of hunting. its mostly how your raised and what you are exposed to. Many "hunters" are children with rifles out for the thrill of the kill..you know, assholes. I understand your opinion. ________________________________ From: John Carl <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:33:32 PM Subject: Re: [MD] Hierarchical Humanism I didn't really want to go into the morality of hunting, Ron, so much as I was trying to illustrate a problem I have with hierarchical humanism. But since you mention it, because you are invading the bear's domain rather than the other way around, because you are armed with a technical superiority that gives you an unfair advantage, and because your motivations would be difficult to justify in a life and death decision, I'm still rooting for the bear. Sorry. John On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 1:05 PM, X Acto <[email protected]> wrote: > John, > That sounds more like killing than hunting. When I hunt, I'm usually > alone. > I familiarize myself with the environment of the area I plan to hunt, I get > to > know the animals, their comings and goings, where they like to eat, drink > and sleep. > I pick one out, based on their eatability, big old ones are usually tough. > I fast to kill my scent and to incease my focus with hunger. I track and > stalk > wait for a clear shot to make a clean kill. Often the opportunity does not > present itself. > Because I use a bow, I get intimate with the animal. If it is too close to > dusk I do > not take the shot for tracking purposes. > When I do eventually get a kill, I pray to the animal and give thanks to > them. I field > dress them and haul them home to butcher in my garage, a family event. > very labor intensive. I take no trophies. I respect the land and the > creatures. > The bear I have hunted, are not defenseless and there are many who found > this > out, they are very resiliant and aggressive when provoked very dangerous to > hunt alone they are to be respected. > You talk of killers not hunters. Those who kill for sport. there is a bit > of difference. > > -Ron > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: John Carl <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 3:15:25 PM > Subject: [MD] Hierarchical Humanism > > So, is it more moral for a hunter to kill a bear, or for the bear to kill > the hunter? > Now I must be immoral, according to the moq hierarchical understanding, > because I'm quite frankly rooting for the bear. Unfortunately that's a > ridiculous hope because the hunters drive around in these white 4x4 trucks > with camper shells and dogs in the back and radio aerials sticking out all > over and the dogs have radio collars on - it's no problem for the hunter > to > let loose the dogs which bring the bear (or mountain lion) to bay in a > tree, > triangulate the location and shoot the "predator". I see them in the woods > all the time. The hunters always win. > > I bet tho, if we took a class room full of kids, and asked them whether > this > story has quality, they'd unanimously vote "no". Especially if we let them > know that it was a mama bear. With cute little cubs. They'd be pissed at > the hunter and wish like anything that his intellectual tools would fail > him > just once, and let the bear have a sporting chance at turning this man's > brains into kilocalories of mama bear milk. Because quite frankly, > sometimes just having an intellect isn't enough. Sometimes you have to > justify the use you make of your intellect in order for me to wish you life > and prosperity. We have lots and lots of humans with guns, cars and > technology. We are running out of wild bears. > > A metaphysics of Quality implies to me that Quality exists on every level. > The Buddhist precept of "do no harm" is the proper response to the > metaphysical reality of Quality. The Taoist contempt for intellectual > pride > and reverence for Nature is the proper response to the metaphysical reality > of Quality. A philosophy that feeds man's overweening arrogance and > egotistical pride at "dominating" nature is not the proper response to the > metaphysical reality of Quality. The arrogance of humanism is an inherited > arrogance born in Rome and Catholicism with clearcut hierarchies of God up > there, and man down here, and all the gradations in between and below. > When > science overthrew religion, it replaced man in the god role and kept the > hierarchical dominance idea. The Prussian totalitarian education system > ingrained the ideas into everyone's children, till today we can barely even > see the damage that's been done because we're so bound up in it. > > I support the right to arm bears > > > > > -- > ------------ > Self is Choice, so choose good > ------------ > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > > > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > -- ------------ Self is Choice, so choose good ------------ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
