Anthony, Thank you for the response, Interesting how both the Zen approach and the Socratic approach aim for similar ends using similar techniques.I understand, per the Phaedrus that Socratic method is more along the lines of the ability to argue pros and cons to arrive at a new understanding of the question and the exposition of prejudices rather than an actual answer to it.
Perhaps I over reach. One wonders at the symbolism in Plato's Phaedrus where the discusion takes place by a stream under a plane tree and a chaste tree, an indiginous Greek tree and one indiginous of the east. Many thanks, and in fact it does change how one interprets his work. Best wishes -Ron ________________________________ From: Ant McWatt <[email protected]> To: moq discuss <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:18:46 AM Subject: Re: [MD] Pirsig and Socratic method (a question for Ant) Ron, The primary literary device that Pirsig intentionally used for both ZMM and LILA was the Zen koan or puzzle rather than the Socratic method (of question and answers). However, judging from the relevant section from my PhD pasted below, you can certainly see a correlation in Dynamic Quality and static quality to Anaximander's ideas about the apeiron (unlimited) and the peiron (limited). Best wishes, Anthony www.robertpirsig.org As a development of Zen Buddhism, it’s critical to realise that the MOQ can be perceived as reflecting the circle of enlightenment found in Buddhist thought where an adherent (such as a young monk) begins at ‘the world of form’ (typically perceived at this juncture dualistically, as in SOM) and proceeds to an understanding of ‘formlessness’ (termed ‘Dynamic Quality’ by Pirsig) to obtain 180 degrees enlightenment. The student then returns with this new knowledge into ‘the world of form’ to achieve full (or 360 degrees) enlightenment or Buddhahood (in which Dynamic Quality is perceived via the static quality patterns). “In Buddhism, the world can be described in terms of ‘The First Principle’, sometimes called ‘Formlessness’ or ‘nothingness’ or ‘freedom’ which parallels the treatment of Quality in ZMM. The world can also be described in terms of ‘The Second Principle’ of ‘Form’ or ‘order’ which parallels the treatment of quality in LILA. In Buddhism, form and formlessness, freedom and order, co-exist.” (Pirsig 1999a) In other words, one should not be seeking to arrive at just recognising Dynamic Quality but to a more profound understanding: ‘The teaching of emptiness is actually an affirmation of the dynamic interconnectedness of all things.’ (Burton, 2001, p.178) The treatment of Quality through ZMM (its formlessness) and LILA (its forms) can, when taken together, be read as reflecting the circle of enlightenment; both texts are constructed as Western versions of a Zen koan (literally puzzling story or question) in order to assist a more Western-orientated mind achieve enlightenment. “LILA was originally conceived of as a case-book in philosophy. ‘Does Lila have Quality?’ is its central question. It was intended to parallel the ancient Rinzai Zen koans (which literally means ‘public cases,’) and in particular, Joshu’s ‘Mu,’ which asks, ‘Does a dog have a Buddha nature?’.” (Pirsig 2002d) > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 07:49:44 -0700 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: [MD] Pirsig and Socratic method (a question for Ant) > > Dr Mcwatt, > A question has emerged (for myself) in regard to the literary device Mr. >Pirsig > chose (if any) to illuminate his thoughts about quality to the reader. > It seems to me that he uses Socratic method and Maieutics. > If this is the case, and Mr. Pirsig did intentionally use this method, > It would change how his works are perceived ( for my own interpretation) > and others I would imagine. > > The linkage with these schools of though to Orphism and Pythagoreanism > as it relates to "Anaximander's ideas about the apeiron and > the peiron, the unlimited and limited" are uncanny. > > Thank you for your time > -Ron > _________________________________________________________________ Get the best of MSN on your mobile http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/147991039/direct/01/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
