Krimel said: I would say we tend to "value" meaning or the reduction of uncertainty. Uncertainty is our constant dark companion. We dread it and fight it with the very fiber of our being. ... Uncertainty is THE philosophically significant realization of the past century. Information Theory defines "meaning" as reduction in uncertainty. I think it is a good definition and can be applied to almost any use of the term.
Marsha replied: I totally disagree with this statement, and wonder how you think to generalize with the "We". I simply do not understand how you come to this conclusion. dmb says: John Dewey saw the desire for uncertainty as more than just analogous to the organism desire for safety. In that sense, the desires for safety and certainty are normal desires but they can both get out of hand. Since science and technology are all about prediction and control, our culture is lusts after certainty in a pretty big way. Absolutists philosophies, determinist philosophies, the hard sciences as well as fundamentalist religions and conservative politics serve the needs of those who extremely fond of certainty. While a certain level of stability is essential, I think the desire for certainty almost always comes with a unhealthy rigidity. It's not too much of an exaggeration to say it marks a certain kind of neurosis and I think this is one of the kind of desire that causes as much suffering as any desire. You know, in the Buddhist sense of suffering. I don't thing reduction in uncertainty defines "meaning" at all. It only defines certainty, which can be pretty meaningless when it is obtained for neurotic reasons and those reasons are very, very common among those who seek it. The deprivation theory of religion, for example, asserts this idea with respect to faith. Psychologist have found very convincing correlations between sensitivity to fear and conservative political attitudes. And who doesn't know a guy who studied math or engineering because he was attracted to their clarity and precision? Pagel's "experience of powerlessness" and the idea that "prayer makes us feel like we can influence the divine will", that we can "have some power" would be another example of this same desire. Again, this is normal but it can lead us to believe in all sorts of unbelievable things or to cling too tightly to the things we believe. I think this is what Pirsig means by "value rigidity", which can blind a guy to the obvious. Isn't it more reasonable to let go and just learn to live with some degree of uncertainty, especially in those areas that are not given to mathematical formulations and such? I think that's certain. _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
