Hello Andre 24 July you wrote:
> I've been away, off and on for a bit, here and there, and I'm going to > suggest something outrageous: it's great to be away from all this > intellectualising. I have enjoyed some stuff, felt annoyed at other > stuff but in general have wondered what the hell are we doing? > We are not engaging ourselves with the essence of what Pirsig has told > us. All this mumbo jumbo about MoQ...expressing it in a static way by > writing it down and getting loads of s/o arguments to deal with (from > a s/o point of experience), trying to 'convert' people to see things > from the Quality point of view........ ahh it is so tiring sometimes > to put something undefinable in unintelligible parlance because then > you get intelligence going...it is such an EGO creator! I see you are fed up with this discussion (but return to it nevertheless to tell us ;-) and it says it: Language is our ocean and nothing can be conveyed without employing it. Jesus, Socrates, Buddha were all word- mongers and egotrippers by trying to introduce their messages via language and their followeres even worse so by writing it down. But don't you see: It's SOM that has led us to believe in an objective, immutable reality that words are mere subjective shadows of (ref. SOM's instigator Plato's cave metaphor) This is the "tormentor" I spoke about that the MOQ was meant to relieve us from, but that Pirsig himself got cold feets about and left for a more watered-down variety where intellect no longer is SOM, but mental activity. And you - like Odyssey's sailors - are tied to the SOM mast and holy convinced that talking about the MOQ is "intellectualizing" - and that Quality/Language is existence's deepest split and - moreover - that language (manipulation of symbols) is MOQ's 4th level, mening that prehistoric mankind's myths (conveyed by language) were "intellectualizing" (millennias before the level). You Andre appeared as a promising MOQ candidate but proved a dud like so many. Still your friend Bodvar Such a divider > wanting to know and understand everything in its finest detail and > whilst it is doing this getting farther and farther away from a deeper > understanding of what quality is all about. Such a bundle of particles > fighting for its own existence while knowing all the time it is about > the waves. The resolution of a paradox ( read particle war) leads to a > deeper understanding (a wave resolution) i.e a deeper understanding to > reach a higher level on consciousness. This resolution takes place at > the pre- ( or is it post?) intellectual level. Consider the simple > statement: "to save your life you have to lose it'" ( not sure if > Jesus actually said this but it sounds ok) To understand this > statement you have to go deeper than mere intellectual understanding. > As a matter of fact you cannot make sense of this statement if you > intellectualise about it...if you approach it intellectually. This is > a level of understanding, a level of consciousness Pirsig talked about > in ZMM...this is the Pirsig I love! LIVE!, EXPERIENCE! > > And the implications and consequences of this insight are reaching far > beyong the 'little' considerations named 'intellect' or 'intelligence' > as a means of experiencing experience (Quality). This goes higher and > at the same time deeper!! It,as Pirsig anticipated, invokes a real > break from intellect ( as Bodvar suggests) it needs to be transcended > ( as Phaedrus anticipated and fought for). A radical break from > everything we are used to! A spiritual awareness of an order above the > intellectual. This, of necessity invokes intuition, imagination, > feeling:a 'listnening to the wind (ZMM)' The Code of Art!. > > I am still trying to work this out: the complementarity between the > waves and the paricles...this is very interesting stuff. Thoughts are > particles! Intellect creates particles from the ineffable waves of > Quality! Pre-intellectual/post intellectual deeper understanding > re-establishes the waves ...but much richer. > > Ahh, I don't know. Anyone...help! > > For what it is worth > Andre > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > > Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
