I am sorry.
----- Mensagem de [email protected] ---------
Data: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 02:16:49 -0500
De: Ham Priday <[email protected]>
Endereço para Resposta (Reply-To): [email protected]
Assunto: Re: [MD] The relativity of the MoQ
Para: [email protected]
Reconciling Steve and Platt --
On 30 Aug. at 11:34 AM, Platt wrote:
For me Quality, beauty is there all the time, all around us, in
the
trees, the earth, the sky, the emptiness of space. It is there
waiting for us to rejoin it. At death it is as if we move from
one side of our senses to the other, from the highly filtered,
highly processed world inside the brain to the true unbounded
universe where subjective and objective coalesce. We step out of
the dense fog of introverted human perception
to the clear air of reality. Where beauty is we will be.
At 12:06 PM Steve responded:
If Quality=reality=experience then we don't need to be concerned
with any "dense fog of introverted human perception" that stands
between us and the world as it really is. The MOQ perspective
as I understand it makes it impossible to imagine being out of
touch with reality since experience IS reality, so we never need
to worry about trying to get back in touch with it after death.
On the other hand, Pirsig wrote bits about the possibility of
"taking off the cultural glasses" that contradict this view, but I
think such passages are a step backward from the Quality
postulate to a subject-object, appearance-reality picture where
taking off the glasses as a philosophical goal makes sense.
Here are two elegantly articulated statements that seem to present
opposing views of "the world as it really is". But are they really
in opposition, or simply descriptions of two different reality perspectives?
Platt is talking about aesthetic value that pervades the universe,
and how we (as sentient subjects) seek to identify with it. He
speaks of "beauty" as an eternal 'Quality' that we perceive
tangentially "from one side of our senses" but which is "waiting
for
us to rejoin it". If Platt's description of subjective sensibility
is a "foggy" suggestion of our "estrangement" from reality, the fog
is dispelled in the next sentence where he speaks of death moving
us
(the "world inside the brain") "...to the true unbounded universe
where subjective and objective coalesce." In fact, this is one of
the few instances where Platt has alluded to metaphysical reality.
Steve, on the other hand, is not talking about "ultimate reality"
or
esthetic appreciation but, rather, experiential existence.
Experience, for Steve, is "reality as it really is". "Since
experience IS reality," he insists; "we never need to worry about
trying to get back in touch with it after death." What he says is
true insofar as we are subjectively "in touch with" reality through
our experience of its objective values. But he is confused by
Pirsig's "cultural glasses" that "contradict this view" and,
frankly,
so am I. Whether we wear such glasses or not, existence is "a
subject-object, appearance-reality picture", whereas reality itself
is not. And I, for one, have a problem with the equation
"Experience
= Reality".
I would submit that there is a world of difference (literally)
between being "in touch with" reality, valuistically, as an
observer
"on the fringe" and being unified with it. Platt has dared to
speculate that the cessation of life may be a return to Oneness.
While this of course is a spiritualistic concept shunned by the
MoQists, it has metaphysical validity in Essentialism. For if the
essence of man is value-sensibility, as I maintain, there is no
logical principle or law of nature whereby Essence can be lost.
Indeed, it would seem that the created "agent of value" is
inextricably linked with its uncreated Source.
Thanks, gentlemen, for your perceptive worldviews.
Essentially yours,
Ham
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
----- Final da mensagem de [email protected] -----
Moq_Discuss mailing list
Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
Archives:
http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
