On 9/4/09 6:57 AM, "Steve Peterson" <[email protected]> wrote:
<snip> Bo: > It was SOM (represented by his colleagues) that asked Phaedrus this > question and the fact that they saw it as a dilemma shows that it was > regarded unavoidable - Quality HAD to fit the S/O matrix - something > that shows that it was the ONLY way of thinking there were. Steve: Note that this question did not occur to Pirsig in his initial musings on Quality. Instead it occurred to some of his colleagues as a way to challenge what he was saying. Was Pirsig not participating in intellectual patterns before he tried to answer this question? You've limited intellect to asking yourself a single question about objectivity versus subjectivity. Certainly asking this one question is not the only intellectual pattern. I never ask it when I'm factoring a polynomial for example or when I'm trying to decide whether I should be using the word "who" or "whom" when I am constructing a sentence. In fact, I'm only asking this question when I happen to be asking this question. Best, Steve Hi Bo, Steve and all, Imho Mathematical logic is only useful if ³1² has been established metaphysically. Pythagoras was instrumental in the definition of the logic of ³1². At the SOM level before Pirsig, mathematics ruled. S was undefined and only O was one. Evolution was impossible, and morality was the survival of the strongest man. Women were not invited to participate. With evolution ³quality² is more inclusive metaphysically than ³1² in that it is undefined and evolves. Mathematical logic has no argument to define a transcendental ³1². Joe > Hi Bo, > > > On Sep 4, 2009, at 3:47 AM, [email protected] wrote: > >> Hi Steve >> >> 2 Sep. you wrote: >> >>> I completely agree that it sounds very strange to say that the >>> intellectual level is a single fact/value rather than the >>> collection of >>> ALL intellectual patterns of value. >> > Bo: >> Do you find it strange that all biological patterns are about one >> single >> fact/value: LIFE? > > Steve: > Here you are pretty much saying that all biological patterns are > biological since biology means having to do with life. All biological > patterns have something to do with life just as all intellectual > patterns have to do with using symbols, but life is not the only > value on the biological level. For example, "might makes right" > describes a biological pattern that is not equivalent to "the value > of life." Hunger is a biological pattern of value that is not > equivalent to life. Killing is a biological pattern that is not > equivalent to life. So I would never define the biological level as > "the value of life" but instead define it as the collection of all > biological patterns of value. > > >> Steve said: >>> Certainly the habit of mind that involves asking "is this >>> subjective or >>> objective?" is one such pattern of value, but it is just one. >> > Bo: >> It was SOM (represented by his colleagues) that asked Phaedrus this >> question and the fact that they saw it as a dilemma shows that it was >> regarded unavoidable - Quality HAD to fit the S/O matrix - something >> that shows that it was the ONLY way of thinking there were. > > Steve: > Note that this question did not occur to Pirsig in his initial > musings on Quality. Instead it occurred to some of his colleagues as > a way to challenge what he was saying. Was Pirsig not participating > in intellectual patterns before he tried to answer this question? > You've limited intellect to asking yourself a single question about > objectivity versus subjectivity. Certainly asking this one question > is not the only intellectual pattern. I never ask it when I'm > factoring a polynomial for example or when I'm trying to decide > whether I should be using the word "who" or "whom" when I am > constructing a sentence. In fact, I'm only asking this question when > I happen to be asking this question. > > Best, > Steve > > Moq_Discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
